Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method

[snorvich]

so i'm the lucky one., after 6 years of reefing, bang, ich.

I got some new fish (and have to admit, have never used a Q tank)

now, my powder blue is gone, as well as sailfin and tommy tang.

locking at this transfer treatment, I wonder if I should take all fish out of the DP tank and put them in a 3 day cycle.

question is, what happens with the parasites in my tank when it is empty from fish?

do thy die off eventually ? --- not that all my fish are free of it in 20+ days, but thy get it from whatever is still sleeping in my tank

other question would be is where douse the parasite come from ?

I know thy say stress and such is a factor (to make it bloom) but where douse it start?

Se suppose I do the transfer treatment, even if it would be for 30 days, and assume thy are all free, than get new fish (Tommy, powder blue and sailfin)

I don't put the new fish in the DP tank, but also in a 3 day treatment for 30 days (afterwards considering them free)

is there any remote chance that ich would still get in my tank.

in other words, there are always ich parasites in sleeping mode somewhere that don't die

or in other words, a fish fully free of ich can never get ich again from within a system that douse not change / receives new (external) fish ?

In order to eradicate ich from a tank requires 72 days of having no fish in the tank since ich has an obligate need for fish as part of its life cycle. Stress does not cause ich, a parasite called cryptocaryon irritans causes "ich" and that can be eliminated using tank transfer (copper, CP or worst case, hyposalinity).

 

[Kevin012]

In order to eradicate ich from a tank requires 72 days of having no fish in the tank since ich has an obligate need for fish as part of its life cycle. Stress does not cause ich, a parasite called cryptocaryon irritans causes "ich" and that can be eliminated using tank transfer (copper, CP or worst case, hyposalinity).

hmmm. something to consider.

I was locking for it (a time frame before it is all ich free)

It was just a thought that if i indeed could make the tank absolute ich free, and from there on quarantine all fish by means of 3 day transfer, I could be 100% ich free.

or decide to run the course of waiting it out, see what survives and get resistant to it with only minor outbreak's

where 100% ich free would in deed be better

in this text: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2159738

it is described that trophonts, i.e. the feeding stage during which the parasite can be found on the fish, and tomonts) survived dormant for 4"“5 months

do they survive 3 to 5 months on the fish, or in a fish empty the tank? And douse this not suggest up to 5 months of a Fish free tank / up to 5 months changing tank each 3 days?

 

[snorvich]

hmmm. something to consider.

I was locking for it (a time frame before it is all ich free)

It was just a thought that if i indeed could make the tank absolute ich free, and from there on quarantine all fish by means of 3 day transfer, I could be 100% ich free.

or decide to run the course of waiting it out, see what survives and get resistant to it with only minor outbreak's

where 100% ich free would in deed be better

in this text: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2159738

it is described that trophonts, i.e. the feeding stage during which the parasite can be found on the fish, and tomonts) survived dormant for 4–5 months

do they survive 3 to 5 months on the fish, or in a fish empty the tank? And douse this not suggest up to 5 months of a Fish free tank / up to 5 months changing tank each 3 days?

The trophont feeds on the body fluids and cells of the fish for about 3–7 days before leaving the host under normal conditions of salinity and temperature. Trophonts will also actively leave fish that have died, but are not immediately infective. They require additional time to develop from protomonts to tomonts, just as they would if leaving a live host.

Once a trophont leaves the fish, it becomes a protomont. During this phase, it loses its cilia, flattens its surfaces, and moves onto a substrate for about 2–18 hours. After this stage, the organism stops, sticks to the surface, and encysts, whereupon it becomes a tomont.

The time required for theront development varies and this is the variability which suggests a fallow period of 72 days in order to insure an "ich free" tank.

 

[m0nkie]

so I'm getting all my fish out of DT for TTM. I have a large QT setting up, ready to shelter all the fish while DT go fallow.

Question is, if i start the QT with live rocks, is there anything i need to do to make sure those LR are ich free?

 

[Spar]

so I'm getting all my fish out of DT for TTM. I have a large QT setting up, ready to shelter all the fish while DT go fallow.

Question is, if i start the QT with live rocks, is there anything i need to do to make sure those LR are ich free?

Only option is to keep the LR fallow for 72 days. You dont need LR in your QT though. Keep it simple; bare bottom, heater, sponge filter and/or HOB filter, and PVC for hiding places.

 

[snorvich]

Only option is to keep the LR fallow for 72 days. You dont need LR in your QT though. Keep it simple; bare bottom, heater, sponge filter and/or HOB filter, and PVC for hiding places.

This. And if you are worried about ammonia, add Prime on day two.

 

[m0nkie]

Only option is to keep the LR fallow for 72 days. You dont need LR in your QT though. Keep it simple; bare bottom, heater, sponge filter and/or HOB filter, and PVC for hiding places.

This. And if you are worried about ammonia, add Prime on day two.

thanks, but I set up a huge 100 gallon hospital tank to hold the fish while my DT go fallow for 72 days... I have about 12 small fish and 2 medium sized ones. figured the hospital tank should be cycled. If not, I'm looking at lots of water changes during the fallow period

Im in the process of trapping the fish and TTM each one that's been caught. no LR in the TTM tanks

any suggestions?

 

[Deinonych]

thanks, but I set up a huge 100 gallon hospital tank to hold the fish while my DT go fallow for 72 days... I have about 12 small fish and 2 medium sized ones. figured the hospital tank should be cycled. If not, I'm looking at lots of water changes during the fallow period

Im in the process of trapping the fish and TTM each one that's been caught. no LR in the TTM tanks

any suggestions?

Ceramic media (I use Seachem Matrix) in a HOB filter along with Bio-spira should prevent any ammonia issues.

 

[m0nkie]

Ceramic media (I use Seachem Matrix) in a HOB filter along with Bio-spira should prevent any ammonia issues.

so basically a fresh cycle? I was hoping to avoid the long cycle by using LR.. didn't occur to me that I can't guarantee these LRs are ich free unless I QT them too..

does the ceramic medias cycle faster than dry rocks? These medias aren't cheap either.

 

[Agioniko]

regardless your going to have a cycle. You can get Seachem Ammonia Alert, and a smaller tank. I would just do water changes when needed after the TT period is over. I wouldnt use the water from your tank since its infected, but rather make new water. Ive had five fish in a 40 gallon breeder doing a 5 gallon daily water change, and have had no issues. That might have even been excessive because all you need to do is keep the ammonia down. What kind of fish, and how big?

 

[m0nkie]

Fish list:

2 clowns - 1.5"
firefish - 2"
royal gramma - 1"
green mandarin - 2"
Sunburst Fathead Anthias - 1.5"
Borbonius Anthias - 1"
2 Dispar Anthias - 2"
Blue Chromis - 1.5"
Yellow Corris Wrasse - 1.5"
McCosker Flasher wrasse - 2"
Lineatus wrasse - 2"
Blue Tang - 3"
1spot foxface - 4"

I was hoping to avoid setting up 3-4 tanks and do daily water change. Which is why I got the 125gal...

what would you guys do? set up multiple tanks or cycle 1 big one?

I currently have 4 spare tanks. 125gal, 20gal, 20gal and 10gal

 

[m0nkie]

current tank condition is, added a wrasse . tang broke out in ich along with the royal gramma. all fish are still eating. increased feeding

been about 2 weeks since break out. less ich sign on tang. royal gramma is still covered

 

[gt5500]

Hi everyone, just joined up, I have read through this entire post and find it fascinating.
I'll own up, I started my first ever tank (marine or otherwise) last November, its a Fluval M40 (a nano). I read up as much as I could and thought I had all bases covered, cycle, params etc. all was going well, added some snails, cleaner shrimp and then the big day arrived and in went a tank bred occy clown. Then I start reading all these comments about quarantine, it seems I've messed up already by not quarantining anything, live rock, CUC or clown.
I know I should really qt the clown and run the tank fallow for 12 weeks now to ensure the tank is free of ich, however the clown shows no signs of ich after 4 weeks (still a risk I know).
Anyway I am going to use the transfer method for the next fish that go in, however as all my fish will be tiny such as yellow clown goby, tailspot blenny possibly a pink streak wrasse (not the aggressive 6 line) and only one at a time, can I use anything smaller than 10g for the transfer tanks? the fish (one at a time) will then go into a 10g QT for 4 weeks or so after the TTM.

 

[Spar]

no problem going smaller than 10g. many people even use 5g home depot buckets, which I have to assume only filled up 1/2-3/4, meaning 3 gallons or so.

the value of having more water is just the value of dilution. ammonia creeps up slower, etc. but, TTM allows you to use Prime or AmQuel daily, so you can get past that issue.

the good part about a Nano is that if you have problems down the road, at least it is easy to get the fish out and QT at that point; thus resetting in sense. in a 450g like my tank, i don't have that option by any means.

 

[gt5500]

Thanks, I understand that the volume is more about dilution than swimming space but in my mind (albeit inexperienced at this stage) even 5 gallons seems quite big for a yellow clown goby for 72hrs. Good to hear you have had success with 3 gallons or so, I don't have loads of room for tanks and mixed s/w so getting away with smaller tanks for the TTM stage will help out greatly.

What do people think about my current DT, should I take the clown out QT and run the tank fallow for 12 weeks or is the risk small enough? the only fish in there is tank bred and bought from a respectable LFS and clown breeder so the chance of it having ich is small but obviously still possible. The mature live rock was in a bucket for about 4 weeks and in the dt probably 3 before any cuc went in and was fishless for probably 7 weeks or so. I must admit I didn't ask the guy if he had any ich in his tank when I bought the LR, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[ebond009]

snorvich, what are your thoughts on dosing PP during the TTM. example: dose PP on first transfer, then again on third? any downsides to this? on the bottle it says the treatment is potent for three days. LMK what you think,thanks!

 

[Spar]

snorvich, what are your thoughts on dosing PP during the TTM. example: dose PP on first transfer, then again on third? any downsides to this? on the bottle it says the treatment is potent for three days. LMK what you think,thanks!

a lot of people do this. most recommend to do it on transfers 2 and 4 though, just so you get the first transfer to observe the fish prior to dumping in some medication.

 

[Spar]

Thanks, I understand that the volume is more about dilution than swimming space but in my mind (albeit inexperienced at this stage) even 5 gallons seems quite big for a yellow clown goby for 72hrs. Good to hear you have had success with 3 gallons or so, I don't have loads of room for tanks and mixed s/w so getting away with smaller tanks for the TTM stage will help out greatly.

What do people think about my current DT, should I take the clown out QT and run the tank fallow for 12 weeks or is the risk small enough? the only fish in there is tank bred and bought from a respectable LFS and clown breeder so the chance of it having ich is small but obviously still possible. The mature live rock was in a bucket for about 4 weeks and in the dt probably 3 before any cuc went in and was fishless for probably 7 weeks or so. I must admit I didn't ask the guy if he had any ich in his tank when I bought the LR, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I know this sounds quite cynical, but I don't view anyone as "reliable" personally, especially LFS's; and most people that state they have no Ich in their system just don't know that they do for varying reasons.

I know different people have different opinions on this, but my personal stance is the assumption that everything I purchase has Ich on it in some varying life cycle stage. i.e. I trust no one but myself. I wouldn't even trust a fish coming from Snorvich/Steve, the one person I would be near 100% sure had no Ich within 20 miles of his home :fun2:

If you are serious about having an ich-free environment for life, you will need to remove the Clown and treat/QT and run your DT fallow for the 10 weeks. But if you are willing to wait until 'the time comes' and then treat/QT/fallow, it isn't end of the world given such a small tank. IMO anyway. My personal vote would be for you to just get it right now/early.

 

[Deinonych]

I know different people have different opinions on this, but my personal stance is the assumption that everything I purchase has Ich on it in some varying life cycle stage. i.e. I trust no one but myself. I wouldn't even trust a fish coming from Snorvich/Steve, the one person I would be near 100% sure had no Ich within 20 miles of his home :fun2:

This x1000. I am the same way.

 

[Agioniko]

I would echo it. You can put the clown in a ten gallon tank easily for that time frame. It'll be easier to do it with less fish