Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method

[snorvich]

Ive read the thread a few times and understand that everyone says that the fish need to be transferred in the morning preferably before 9am.

Well i had a crazy morning today and forgot about the fish till about 10:45 and immediately went and moved the fish to the cleaned tank. Should i add another transfer to the back end of the process to be safe or is 10:45 still early enough to be considered the morning

Should be no problem.

 

[snorvich]

Hey snorvich, I just got a pair of Blue Jaw Triggers that I am going to be doing TTM on. I understand the whole process clearly, but want to know what you would suggest for quarantine tank size for a pair of 3.5 inch fish? Right now I am doing the transfer between two 30 gallon tanks. How often during the 3 days should I be dosing prime to keep ammonia down and also how often should I be feeding?

If you think I need to change anything let me know, Thank you!

There are ammonia badges you can get that work well. Feed lightly and ideally siphon out any uneaten.

 

[snorvich]

hi All,
i was read all the method n i want to try cause all my fish ich
n now my MT only corals+LR,now how long time my MT free of ich ?

Thanks,
Ben

I have no idea what you are saying or asking. Sorry.

 

[islandtang]

I have no idea what you are saying or asking. Sorry.

i mean ,
i was catch my fish from my main tank.
how long my main tank can free from white spot if there is no fish, just corals and liverock?

Thanks

 

[islandtang]

my corals and liverock are contamination of whitespot

 

[wooden_reefer]

The theory behind the tank transfer method for treating Cryptocaryon irritans is to move a fish from one tank to the other when the parasites fall off the fish. This happens during dark times in the aquarium so moving the animal first thing in the morning is preferred. The parasites that fall off do not have the ability to complete the life cycle and re-attach. Since the originating tank is a QT tank, simply drain it, clean it, and reestablish it for the next tank transfer. The filter floss used as a seeded biological filter is tossed as is all water. Any PVC is sterilized and any transfer equipment as well. This depletes and eventually eliminates the parasites available to reattach and as a consequence will create a parasite free fish. This is not without stress to the fish but it is in some ways better than copper and just as effective as either copper or hyposalinity. I personally advocate a transfer not using nets.

This method involves too much work.

And, as described is not good as a QT tank is supposed to have a mature-cycled medium running so that the fish is NEVER exposed to any ammonia.

You can need cycled material running separately and never contaminate it, and use as needed in each step.

All this is far too much work. Plus catching the fish is stressful to them.

Pointless unless for very specific reason.

I can see have this method is workable in larger scale setup such as in wholesale distribution, but not for a hobbyist, who generally has far simpler method to eradicate ich very effectively and effortlessly.

 

[tmz]

This method involves too much work.

And, as described is not good as a QT tank is supposed to have a mature-cycled medium running so that the fish is NEVER exposed to any ammonia.

You can need cycled material running separately and never contaminate it, and use as needed in each step.

All this is far too much work. Plus catching the fish is stressful to them.

Pointless unless for very specific reason.

I can see have this method is workable in larger scale setup such as in wholesale distribution, but not for a hobbyist, who generally has far simpler method to eradicate ich very effectively and effortlessly.

I completely disagree with every point. If you read the thread you'll see that everyone of your notions is addressed. So, I won't do it in detail again. I use it all the time for every new fish;it's easy and fast; ammonia is no concern with a 3 day stay and a little ammo lock.;catching fish is not a stress issue as gentle caprture can be done easily.

Silly comments, obviously you haven't tried it.
or even read about it thoroughly.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I completely disagree with every point. If you read the thread you'll see that everyone of your notions is addressed. So, I won't do it in detail again. I use it all the time for every new fish;it's easy and fast; ammonia is no concern with a 3 day stay and a little ammo lock.;catching fish is not a stress issue as gentle caprture can be done easily.

Silly comments, obviously you haven't tried it.
or even read about it thoroughly.

The long term impact of even low levels of amminia should be avoided.

The whole point has been addressed since the beginning, it is called the "new tank syndrone".

It is hard to explain why anyone, in 2013, would accept even low level of ammonia for any period for fish.

In transit, ammonia cannot be avoided to some degree (even then some chemical can be used), but after that, the aquarist should NEVER expose fish to ammonia if he can avoid doing so.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Only if hypo or copper cannot be used effectively does this tank transfer method has any application at all.

Why do so much when you can do next to nothing ( by planing ahead) to eradicate ich?

The more one has to do, the less compliance there will be.

The less one has to do, the longer the period of QT to eradicate ich and the greater certainty in eradicating.

I have to say, the tank transfer method is silly, for the most part.

You can continually cycle new material and avoid fish exposure to ammonia, but why do so much?

 

[wooden_reefer]

Practically speaking, the aquarist can avoid exposing his fish to any level of ammonia. Why would an aquarist so willingly exposed his fish to ammonia?

This mentality really is hard to explain.

Ammonia even as low levels is detriment to fish. The effect may take months to show.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I also want to comment on the process of transfering fish.

I almost never use a net to catch fish.

A lot of bacterial infection is cause by contact with a net. The slime on the fish is a critical barrier against infection.

I use a large clear bag and slowly approach a fish , and allow it to swim into it.

This method has a good chance of transfering some ich containing material.

How do you transfer fish without any chance of transfering ich? For me this is far from certain.

I suggest that you do not routinely use a net to catch fish.

 

[wooden_reefer]

The best transfer method of fish involves the fish not coming in contact with any surface for as much as possible, and for it not to be exposed as much as possible.

Hence, the best transfer method often involves a fair amount of original water.

Some times I want to avoid transfering old water by as much as possible. If the fish will not harm me, I use my washed hands to transfer. I will put the bag with the fish in a rigid dark container. Often the fish is so calm that it will not struggle while on my hand. The whole container is of course right above the water of transfer-to tank.

Transfering of fish when done in the best way is not easy.

A net is a bad thing; the source of many bacterial infections. Occasionally unavoidable, yes, but to be avoided if at all possible.

 

[tmz]

There is no detectable ammonia with this method with a reasonable number of fish. An ammonia detoxifier on the second day is extra insurance. The fish are always exposed to ammonia; they excrete it from their gills and urine. Just not enough to be a problem in a 3 day stay. Your argument ammonia exposure is nonsense. Every reef tank has it and processes it as a source of fixed nitrogen. Natural seawater has ammonia too:

...In natural seawater, ammonia (NH[SIZE=-1]3[/SIZE]) ranges in concentration from 0.02 to 8 ppm (as ammonia), nitrite (NO[SIZE=-1]2^-[/SIZE]) ranges from 0.005 to 0.2 ppm (as nitrite) and nitrate (NO[SIZE=-1]3^-[/SIZE]) ranges from 0.06 to 30 ppm (as nitrate)....

source:

[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php

What is Seawater ? Randy Holmes Farley


Those concentrations vary by depth and location.

Surface water concentrations are more typically ,.1ppm. In his article on parameters and another article on ammonia ammonia Randy offers this recommendation:

<0.1 for total ammonia

"My suggestion is to take some sort of corrective action if the total ammonia rises above 0.1 ppm. This suggestion is also made by Stephen Spotte in his authoritative text, Captive Seawater Fishes.⁶ Values in excess of 0.25 ppm total ammonia may require immediate treatment,.."


The longer the period of qt ,the more chance for ammonia buildup . I use a larger precycled more comfortable tank post tank transfer for additional observation in most cases.
Hypo is unreliable,skates the edge of the fish's tolerance for low sg and may have long term effects on the fish's renal functions. There are numerous reports of hypo resistant strains of crytocaryon irritans which can and does live in brackish water and mutates in asingle life cycle.
Copper can be deadly to some fish and limits your ability to control ammonia as detoxifiers are contra indicated . Some biofilter supression occurs as well. Test for Cu are tricky and often unreliable. Some species show sensitivity to copper meds as well. Ther are reports of copper resistant strains of ich.Nothing is harmful in new water if it's sg and temp ar matched.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I also have source that indicate ammonia even at low level is harmful, and that in the open sea ammonia level is very low. We are not talking about tidal pool fish.

"The longer the period of qt ,the more chance for ammonia buildup ."

No, ammonia in QT will always be non-detectable.

I can be very certain that in QT ammonia WILL not be detectable. It is called planing ahead.

Is ammonia in DT zero? Why would ammonia in QT not be zero?

 

[wooden_reefer]

In QT, I can have five eight-inch fish and amminia will still be zero for the eight to ten weeks to eradicate ich.

Why not? Why can't one plan ahead?

 

[wooden_reefer]

There is only one situation that the aquarist cannot avoid exposing his fish to ammonia.

It is: in the use of an antibiotic against bacterial infection that will harm nitrification bacteria.

This type of antibiotics, the most severe ones, is used less and less often.

My fish WILL NEVER be exposed to ammonia if they do not come done with bacterial infection.

They will not be exposed to high levels of ammonia if a "milder to nitrification bacteria" antibiotic is used, even if nitrite is detectable. Nitrite is much less toxic than ammonia. Some antibiotic will not allow ammonia to be generated but will allow nitrite to be generated, as it affects only one type of nitrification bacteria.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Basically, the eradication of ich is a matter of routine to me. It is 100% effective and effortless.

The wildcard in disease control is bacteria and virus, and other parasites.

Please do not do anything that increases the chance of bacterial infection.

Generally speaking, eradication of ich is a dead horse. 100% effective and effortless.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I think that experienced aquarists who still do not see how effective biological filtration can be in QT have come to this hobby too late. That is, they place live rock in the fore front of their thought.

Those of us who have been in the hobby before the advent of LR should have better instinct in regard to cycling.

Cycling has two faces.

First is as a part of a stable environment. As the complete nitrogen cycle. This is tied to LR. This is the envirnmental face of cycling. Nitrification, the generation of nitrate from ammonia, is just a step.

The other face of cycling is from the utility perspective. Cycling as nitrification is the critical utitlity. This is for fish acclimation and disease control.

 

[MrTuskfish]

When I tried tank-transfer; ammonia never reached a detectable level. Fish are just not in the same water long enough to produce ammonia. "New tank syndrome" does not appear in 3 days. If ammonia is a big worry; just use Prime or any of the safe ammonia neutralizers. IMO & IME; TT is an ideal way to eradicate ich; especially for new hobbyists who aren't familiar with the little tricks that make copper safe & effective.

 

[wooden_reefer]

The TT method is just too much work.

Transfer of fish is not risk-free, esp for the begineer, who tend to use a net. It is the prime reason for bacterial infection. One is jumping from a sure cure (ich) to a unknown territory of bacterial infection

Yes you can use prime or Amquel, but why?

Even very low level ammonia is to be avoided, as new tank sydrone can be slow to develop.