Custom Sump Build

There is headloss with any pump connected to anything.

Your dart, using the closed pump on the RC calculator the 3600seq12, which is actually more of a pressure rated pump than the dart you get this. With 4 vertical feet 1 horizontal, zero of everything else with 1.5 inch plumbing.

Total losses are 5.69 feet of head pressure, or 2.46 PSI. with a flow rate of 2664 GPH. Process took 350 iterations.

Head Loss Calculator developed by Jason Nugent, with pump curve information courtesy of Shane Graber and Reefs.org

Now the Baracuda will handle the pressure a lot better. But the depending on which drum you have in the 8 way and how it is plumbed you can create a lot or a little friction with the 8 way.

So which version are you planning on running?

Also is it a return pump or a closed loop setup? What size of plumbing are you planning on running to the 8 way, and from the 8 way to the tank?

Kim
 
The blackfin 2500 pump I listed at the same 4 feet of head will give you about 2600 gph (the same as the dart), plus you you need to add anything else to it you can end up with more flow since it handes the head pressure a lot better Plus it is less expensive than the dart most places.

Here is the spec chart.
http://www.reeflopumps.com/images/BF2500.doc
 
I am just curious as to whether anyone out there is actually running a Blackfin 2500, as it is fairly new, and though reeflo is selling them, they are asking for field testers. Things I know about it are it draws more current than the dart, and the flow curve. I prefer real world numbers to calculators and flow curves anyway.

Regards,

Jim
 
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Haven't actually checked into the Blackfin, but do know the Baracuda is a horrible pump to run on the OM8way.....That I have done....A concern of mine is power consumption and the Dart as you stated is a little better in that department.......As far as the headloss calc I find it alittle conflicting.....The scenario of 1' horizontal doesn't add much or anything to headloss.....10' of vertical is more equivalent to 1' of vertical loss
Kgross I'm running version 3 drum.
 
If the pipe is large enough horizontal length does not effect the head loss very much, neither will extra fittings. If the pipe size is marginal for the flow rate, the total length will not make a big effect, but the fittings will make more. If the pipe is undersized for the flow, all of it will make a pretty big difference in flow. The calculator is actually pretty good and gives good results.

The problem with your baracuda and the 8 way. Is first the baracuda should have more than 1.5 inch pipe to keep the head loss low, but your valve only has a 1.5 inch inlet, and I would be willing to bet you use 1.5 inch pipe from the pump to the valve. Then with drum 3, you only have 2 1inch outlets. 2 1 inch outlets is even more restrictive than the 1.5 inch inlet.

1 1.5 inch inlet has .1.77 square inches, while 2 1inch pipes has only 1.57 square inches of area. For that pump you should have used the OM4 way with the 2 inch inlet (which they do not make anymore), and 1.5 inch outlets so it did not create a major restriction.

Kim
 
2" from the pump to the valve on the 8way.....I've been searching for more info on the BlackFin 2500, and haven't found much.....they are looking for testers, and honestly those numbers are hypothetical IMO........they haven't really been run to prove what they put up and honestly if you look at the rest of the BlackFin line they are power hungry....
 
The number on that pump are not hypothetical. Reeflo has used and designed the pumps so they know the curves. Pump curves are not made by measuring the pump at all flow rates/head pressures, they are create mathamaticly by how the pump is designed and the specs of the motor on the pump.

On the blackfin motors, I do not know who manufactures them. Since they have cooling fins, that and the ntn bearings, they are much better motors than the normal AO smith on the dart. Now the Dart Gold and SuperDart gold, have really good I believe baldor motors on them. I would suggest calling or emailing reeflo and ask them who makes the motors.

Kim
 
I didn't mean to offend when I used the word "hypothetical", but in all honesty how much field testing is done in the "lab" and numbers run, when you can't actually get "factual" numbers until they are field tested which is apparently in the works.....Baldor motors are my personal choice on the pumps though..
On sump matters, would it be impractical to separate the "intake" are where the filter socks are placed from the other part of that chamber where the skimmer will sit?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14761647#post14761647 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chriscobb
I didn't mean to offend when I used the word "hypothetical", but in all honesty how much field testing is done in the "lab" and numbers run, when you can't actually get "factual" numbers until they are field tested which is apparently in the works.....Baldor motors are my personal choice on the pumps though..
On sump matters, would it be impractical to separate the "intake" are where the filter socks are placed from the other part of that chamber where the skimmer will sit?
Click to expand...

Many sumps have a separate area for the drains, for bubble control, but in general (in the custom build arena) they are too small to incorporate a sock.

Jim
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14761647#post14761647 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chriscobb
I didn't mean to offend when I used the word "hypothetical", but in all honesty how much field testing is done in the "lab" and numbers run, when you can't actually get "factual" numbers until they are field tested which is apparently in the works.....Baldor motors are my personal choice on the pumps though..
On sump matters, would it be impractical to separate the "intake" are where the filter socks are placed from the other part of that chamber where the skimmer will sit?
Click to expand...

Baldors are very good motors. But to cut costs (I am assuming here). Reeflo went away from the baldor motors a few years ago, and went to the AO smith motors.

You didn't offend me at all, I was just trying to explain that most pump curves are hypothetical. I think the "testing" that reeflo is asking for, is really just some inexpensive advertising. Everybody that tests one of the new pumps, will be talking about how good they are.......

On separating, yes you can, but there is no real reason to do it. If you use socks (which I do not, I like to keep as much coral food in the tanks as possible), just have it hang on one side/corner and leave the rest for the skimmer. A baffle could be put in, but I don't see what it would accomplish.

Kim
 
Thanks.....I was thinking with the size of the sump making a small area of the sump where the tank drains into wouldn't really affect it much....I'm just trying to figure an easy way to be able to swap them out as needed. My last sump was longer and not as wide, and I did incorporate drain area, but was a pain to swap out socks and I want to eliminate it this time around.
On another note do you guys feel that teeth cut into the panel from the skimmer area to the fuge is important? Not that it's hard to cut the teeth. I use my dovetail jig and router with guide bushings, but I was thinking that a lip cutout rounded over and polished would be a smoother transition into the fuge area decreasing some possible microbubbles as well. Any thoughts or input?
 
I'm following you kgross about the coral food, but I really like to use them during water changes and maintenance. I like to blow things off while everything is still running and such and those particles I do like to capture with the sock is my major reasoning behind the thought. Agree now thinking about it don't really see a need to baffle it.
Baffle spacing I'm under the impression the wider the better? I remember reading quite a few threads and can't remember tons, but I do recall that, but also I remember reading that in certain circumstances baffles are useless???
 
Socks can be nice for maintance, but to many people leave them on all the time.

With as large as you are making the sump, it does not matter really if you make a separate area for the filter socks or not.

Baffle spacing. It really depends on the width of the baffle and the flow rate for the bubble traps. The other issue is cleaning. If you are going to do a bubble trap, since you have the space, I would do 2 inches apart so you can reach in between them for cleaning.

With your flow rate, if you had a more normal 12 to 16 inch wide sump, you would need 1.5 to 2 inches to keep the flow slow enough to allow the bubbles to be released from the water, but since you are so wide, I think 3/4 of in inch would still give you slow enough flow to let the bubbles out.

Kim
 
Going to attempt to post a pic of what I've done so far....pics aren't the greatest took them with my camera phone, didn't want to drag the new Canon 40D out into the dusty garage
Sump%20Build
 
Sump%20Build
Start of initial leak test!!!!! None.....Seems actually came out near perfect, to bad I don't have a jointer, but some easy block sanding did the trick.
 
Where are your baffles? It is normally easier to install them onto the front and back first then put the bottom on the sump.

Kim
 
I haven't installed them as of yet.....I've never had any issues doing it this way. I've got a few pointers for glue up from James.....
 
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