Cyanide caught fish?

[swegyptian]

Hello-

I am thinking about a new angel for my 125. I was curious about some of the fish that are available from two different areas, with different prices. I understand that some are better looking than others, but that you also pay more for the fish that are not cyanide caught.

Apparently cyanide can kill even a month after capture, even though the fish looks healthy. If the fish are eating in the store, does that mean that they are not feeling the effects of cyanide?

Basically I can't decide if I should be from my LFS, or from the marine center. The prices are pretty much the same. My LFS is also good about monitoring each fish, and they don't like to sell them unless they are eating. Would you feel comfy buying a fish as long as it is eating, regardless of its origin?

And a side note. Is there a difference in the appearance of the Emporer Angel depending on their origin?

Thanks a bunch,
Alex

 

[Kent E]

There is a great article dealing with figi I think it was, The article is from advancedaquarist.com its the editorial.

 

[Steven Pro]

The collection locale/point of origin of the fish is extremely important in avoiding cyanide caught fishes. Find out where each specimen hailed from.

 

[bginop]

i know one thing is for sure, avoid any fish caught from the phillipeans.

 

[JustFishes]

Stay away from all cyanide caught fishes! Cyanide caught fishes have a sort of cancer, which their body slowly dies. Unless you have a really strong system, you probably won't keep a cyanide caught fish longer then a few months. Plus if you buy those types of caught fish, then your supporting a horrible method, which shouldn't be done.

 

[swegyptian]

So how do I know which collection places to avoid? If my LFS can't promise me about the origin of the fish, I'll probably go with the marine center instead.

So even is the fish is eating, it might still die from cyanide poisoning right?

Thanks again,
Alex

 

[LargeAngels]

Ask your LFS who their supplier/wholesaler is. One good reputable wholesaler in LA is Quality Marine.

 

[Mike Dizon]

I understand the philippines has a bad reputation from using cyanide but not all fishes are exported and caught using by cyanide. Alot of butterfly, tangs, etc. fishes are not caught cyanide. In my shop at direct aquatic. I am taking care of alot of fishes some you will see at my website. We do have angel fish, tangs, butterfly, etc that are not caught using cyanide. Some of our species in our showroom tank are 3-4 years old. In my experience, its really hard to tell if the fish was caught cyanide. You cant blame the dealer since they themselves wont know eventhough it came from the philippines. I have collected fishes here myself and its not that hard. I agree some do use cyanide but making a general statement does not sound correct. Hospital tank I have several coral beauty, bicolor angel, etc. caught non-cyanide. Some fish I do suspect are caught cyanide.

 

[swegyptian]

So if they are eating and behaving normally am I okay, even if it may have been cyanide caught?

 

[JustFishes]

Ask the person in charge where they get their fishes. Usually Phillpines is where all the use of cyanide happens. Check if the fish is eatting and try to avoid fishes that haven't been acclimated completely. Signs of savour stress in all their fishes usually means there is something wrong with them.

 

[Kahuna Tuna]

Is there a difference in the appearance of the Emporer Angel depending on their origin?

Emp's coming from the Pacific have their dorsal fin grow into a streamer, from the Indian ocean and Red Sea the dorsal remains rounded. Also the Emp's from the IO and RS are supposed to have a tail that is more orange than yellow.

The collection locale/point of origin of the fish is extremely important in avoiding cyanide caught fishes. Find out where each specimen hailed from.

This is the key. I avoid any fish with the tag Indo-Pacific, as this fish was more than likely caught in the Phillipines or Indonesia which are the two main problem areas in regards to use of cyanide. Look for Indo-Pac fish that have a more specific point of origin like Fiji, Tonga, Christmas Island, the Maldives, Australia, Hawaii, ect. You will pay a lot more for a fish that hails from one of these areas but you are almost guaranteed the fish will not only be free from cyanide but generally handled better as well. Well worth the extra money if you ask me.

 

[just dave]

Anyone happen to read the article by Dr. Robert J Goldstein in FAMA (10/97) about cyanide?

Anyone happen to have It?

I have a link to a site with it but the link is no longer any good.

 

[Mike Dizon]

Yes I agree RED SEA emperator might cost more but better than the Philippines emperator.

I would not defend this fish cause I have not been sucessful in general keeping them from here. If you have the money its better if you get the ones from the redsea vs Philippines unless you have it mac certified. Many exporters here sell them but I dont get them. I am lucky the emperator I have in my personal tank has been there more than 3 years. I feel secure its not cyanide caught. In my experience if it was cyanide caught it will only live up to 4-6 months.

I have interviewed several fish collector here in the Philippines and most of them say it is very hard and almost impossible to catch it with net because it is found very deep and they hide very fast in the rocks. But sometimes they are able to corner the fish before it goes back in its hole and catch it with net. Its a 50%/50% risk if it comes from here.

I am not an exporter more of an enviromentalist. I have been releasing fishes in santuary areas here and helping out one reefs that is in a santuary area. I dont even sell live corals in my shop. We design own synthetic ones.

We are probably one of the best if not the best marine fishshop in the country. Infact, we are in the process of getting our shop certified by mac as a retailer the first in the county. Our shop complements with there vision. We track down how old fishes are when we place it in our customer tank that we service.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

From talking with my LFS owner about fish that have been caught with cyanide, she stated that the cyanide affects the fishes ability to eat. that they wind up starving to death. She has been in the bussines a long time and seems to know a bit about fish, both SW and FW.

So if that is true, then I'd say if the fish is eating well and showing no signs of stress or other desiases, you should be fine. JMO.

 

[Steven Pro]

Anyone happen to read the article by Dr. Robert J Goldstein in FAMA (10/97) about cyanide?

Anyone happen to have It?

I have a link to a site with it but the link is no longer any good.

If anyone has a copy of this article, I would love to read it.

 

[Mike Dizon]

I would disagree with your lfs owner. In my experience keeping Emperator angel s,m,l and XXL, even though the fishes are eating its does not mean your investment is safe. There is still a risk they might stop eating and just die without any reason. I know cyanide destroy the liver of the fish so making it a slow death.

 

[Mike Dizon]

Btw, Moorish idols are not cyanide caught. I have seen it with my own eyes while the collectors are diving catching this fish with net. They are so sensitive but after properly QT and put in the right enviroment they get aggressive. Eating almost anything you give it.

 

[just dave]

If anyone has a copy of this article, I would love to read it.

If the article is factual it will have you rethinking the whole cyanide/fish death scenario. Cyanide is bad but according to the article it's not doing what we think it is. I've read it a number of times and it makes some very good points. I hope someone has it. Makes me wish I'd kept all my old FAMA issues.

 

[Kahuna Tuna]

I am not an exporter more of an enviromentalist. I have been releasing fishes in santuary areas here and helping out one reefs that is in a santuary area. I dont even sell live corals in my shop. We design own synthetic ones.

I applaud your efforts Mike, it looks like you are doing a great job and your web site is very nice. I have heard that cyanide destroys the fishes renal system as well and even if it eats well the fishes damaged digestive system cannot recover. I also think a lot of folks tend to blame cyanide poisoning whenever there is a mysterious fish death and also think that certain species are prime candidates for being cyanide captured.

Here's a quote from wikipedia on cyanide;

"Cyanides are used to capture live fish near coral reefs for the aquarium and seafood market. This illegal fishing occurs mainly in the Philippines, Indonesia and the Caribbean to supply the 2 million marine aquarium owners in the world. In this method, a diver uses a large, needleless syringe to squirt a cyanide solution into areas where the fish are hiding, stunning them so that they can be easily gathered. The cyanide stuns the fish by affecting the uptake of oxygen in their gills. Environmental organizations decry the practice, as do responsible aquarists and aquarium dealers. To prevent the trade of illegally caught aquarium fish, the Marine Aquarium Council have created a certification in which the tropical fish are caught legally with nets only. To insure authenticity, "MAC Certified marine organisms bear the 'MAC Certified' label on the tanks and boxes in which they are kept and shipped." *[MAC Certification]. The MAC certified fish are usually healthier and longer-lived than cyanide-caught fish, since their vital organs are not affected by the poison. Many fish caught in this fashion die either immediately or in shipping. Those that survive often die from shock or from massive digestive damage. The high concentrations of cyanide on reefs so harvested has also resulted in cases of cyanide poisioning among local fishermen and their families."

 

[Steven Pro]

This illegal fishing occurs mainly in the Philippines, Indonesia and the Caribbean .....

There are no confirmed cases of cyanide usage in the Caribbean that I am aware of.