cyano and lighting facts please

spamreefnew

New member
I have had some small patches of cyano in my tank for about a year now,,they are getting bigger as of late. My MH bulbs are over a year old now but I am in the process of building a LED fixture witch will be done in a week or two. Will the new fixture help me win the battle? Is there any factual information on cyano? Don't get me wrong,,cyano is not taking over my tank or anything,,it's just small patches that annoy me:)
 
cyano is a bacteria and not an aglae. Most of the time it is more of a problem with phosphates and nitrates other than lighting. Have you tested for these to see if they are high? JMO
 
Actually cyano (cyanobacteria), aka blue green algae, is both an algae and a bacteria. As a result it does great with light, just like any other algae, and even does well with dark...functioning as a heterotrophic bacteria. Best control is nutrient control, including carbon sources, and keep the alkalinity and pH on the high side. Also some critters such as hermits and fighting conchs that will actually eat it will help.
 
Just MHO

Cyanobacteria have one evolutionary ability that sets them apart from most other organisms on our planet. They can fix nitrogen straight from the atmosphere. Which probably explains why they've been around from the beginning. In our tanks, when nitrate is permitted to accumulate, nitrogen gas can be produced within LR and sand. This gas then makes its way to the surface of the sand or LR where light is available for photosynthesis. This creates an area perfect for cyanobacteria, where they have an advantage over many other organisms, and they flourish. So, IMHO, in order to control cyanobacteria, we must first control nitrate. If you run a trickle filter in a reef tank, you can almost guarantee there will be cyanobacteria problems. If you leave mechanical filtration in the system for more than a day or so, like filter socks, you end up with a similar situation. Sponge filters on pumps, or any high flow, high oxygen environment will produce nitrate. These areas need to be limited. The system needs to be kept clean. Detritus, or rotting organic matter, releases nitrate into the system. If this material is removed before it can break down, it doesn't release nitrate into the system. If these steps are taken, cyanobacteria doesn't become an issue.
Again, JMHO
EC
 
So, IMHO, in order to control cyanobacteria, we must first control nitrate.
As you noted, cyanobacteria can fix atmospheric nitrogen. They are virtually never N limited, even in the complete absence of nitrate since they can make their own.

Your advice for how to limit nitrate will help eliminate cyano, but it works by limiting phosphate, not nitrate.

Actually cyano (cyanobacteria), aka blue green algae, is both an algae and a bacteria.
Just to clarify this a bit, algae is just a common name for pretty much everything in the sea that's photosynthetic and isn't a flowering plant. It has no true taxonomic meaning and actually includes organism from several different phyla and at least two kingdoms.
 
Your advice for how to limit nitrate will help eliminate cyano, but it works by limiting phosphate, not nitrate.

Phosphorus provides the frame work for DNA, so it's needed by all nuisance algae and microbes. When one flourishes and another doesn't, it typically isn't phosphate that is the determining factor. It's the other environmental influences that cause one to do well while others eek out an existence. There are many determining factors like, light, flow, other trace elements, temperature, and IMHO, in the case of cyanobacteria, the amount of N2. If you have a sand bed that's pumping out N2, it provides a source of nitrogen that is not available to other problem causing organisms like hair algae. This, in my mind, gives cyanobacteria a clear advantage over hair algae and most other problem causing organisms.

We can never rid our systems of phosphate. It's simply impossible. We utilize many different tactics to remove phosphate from our systems. Like Phosphate removing media. It's a competition, for phosphate, between these types of media (or anything that we use to remove phosphate), and problem organisms with their need for phosphate. The better we are at providing an environment that meets the needs of a particular problem organism, the stronger, and more numerous, that organism will become. As they grow and reproduce, they bind more and more phosphate, robing it from methods we utilize to removing it. This creates a problem if we think of phosphate control as the only means of controlling problem organisms.

As an example. The owner of my LFS tested his new phosphate meter on my water today. It read zero. If I removed all my herbivores today, my tank would be covered in algae within a short few days. Even though my water tests zero for phosphates. We can not control problem organisms with phosphate control alone, because we can never truly rid our systems of phosphate. We must disrupt other aspects of the organisms environment to keep them under control. Anything we can do to disrupt their way of life tips the scales in our favor. With some organisms it's herbivores, maybe it's lighting, maybe it's silica, or flow??????? IMHO, with cyanobacteria, one of the ways to disrupt their way of life is to limit the amount of N2 they have access to. High levels of N2 clearly gives cyanobacteria an advantage. I'd be willing to bet, that even with my zero reading for phosphate, if I added a trickle filter with bioballs, cyanobacteria would begin growing in my system. Properly maintained trickle filters with bioballs don't contribute to the phosphate level of the system. They do contribute to nitrate level though. Nitrate leads to N2, and N2 leads to cyanobacteria.

Don't get me wrong. I do believe that elevated levels of phosphate is a huge cause of problem organisms in our systems. I just believe that problem organisms can do well even if phosphate levels are low, or undetectable with hobbyist level test kits, if other requirement for their health and reproduction are met. This is simple to test. Just remove all algae eating organisms from a system with a low phosphate level and watch what happens with the algae.

Again, and as always, this is just MHO.
EC
 
N2 is rather soluble in saltwater, and air is roughly 60% N2, so limiting N2 won't really happen.

I don't know the reasoning behind this, but I have observed that all my skimmerless tanks get cyano quickly after being setup, then slowly cycles out. My skimmered tanks don't start developing cyano until late, and it doesn't cycle out until I use chemiclean. Not sure why. I am not trying to start a skimmer debate, just something noticed. Perhaps one of the chemicals that build up without a skimmer is similar to the active ingredient in chemiclean.
 
There are many determining factors like, light, flow, other trace elements, temperature, and IMHO, in the case of cyanobacteria, the amount of N2. If you have a sand bed that's pumping out N2, it provides a source of nitrogen that is not available to other problem causing organisms like hair algae. This, in my mind, gives cyanobacteria a clear advantage over hair algae and most other problem causing organisms.
Keep in mind though that that N2 comes from the sandbed breaking down inorganic nitrogen (NH4/NO2/NO3) and that it takes 2 moles of DIN to make every mole of N2 that the sandbed pumps out. If DIN is low (and thus unavailable to other algae), N2 production by the sandbed will be low as well, so being close to the sandbed doesn't provide any advantage.

Also, N2 is the most abundant gas in seawater, regardless of the presence of a sandbed or not, so it's never limiting. That's why fixing their own N from N2 is such an advantage. If DIN is low and P is present, cyano can just switch to using N2 as its N source and keep growing. All other algae slow their growth if either DIN or P is low.
 
when my bulbs get old (redder spectrum?) i see an increase in cyano.

my personal theory is the the other (mostly coraline) don't grow as fast, letting cyano "fill the gap" created...
just my own theory, based on my limited experience...
 
Fact, I have had many types of lighting over the years and I have almost always had some cyno in my dt. I also have huge flow with 4 tunze 6350s and 3 red dragon closed loops. Fact is cyno is very resilient.
 
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