DC vs AC return pumps. Reliability question.

[karimwassef]

At the end of the day it's an AC pump with different commutation.

Any pump with phased windings has alternating current, but an optimized pulsed 100kHz waveform is not the same as 60Hz sinusoid from the line.

 

[mortimersnerd]

I've got 3 wavelines and have owned two others without any problems. Great pumps.

 

[ksed]

Let's not forget the losses that occurs in the controller and power supply.

 

[karimwassef]

Yup. Accounting for that too. The net DC efficiency is still better accounting for the losses in the rectifier stage. For the controller, I'll say that different manufacturers have different competencies.

 

[ksed]

According to Sicce the 9.0 ADV is more efficient than the 9.0 DC
http://sicceus.com/sdc_adv.html

 

[Klaus Jansen]

Let's not forget the losses that occurs in the controller and power supply.

How much ? Maybe 1-2% in good performed DC motorblocks and electronic and 50 % in bad AC motorblocks with large heattransfers ?
A DC pump can be very bad if you use bad components, such as SquareWave technology instead of Sine Wave, large gap between rotor and stator, bad hydraulic and so on.

The future are electronically commutated motors.

best regards .. .Klaus

 

[ksed]

The key word you said is bad motor blocks

 

[Klaus Jansen]

Motorblock > Electronic > Hydraulic .

A good performed AC Pump can be better than a poorly designed DC pump. But a well designed DC pump is superior to any good AC pump

 

[ksed]

Any pump with phased windings has alternating current, but an optimized pulsed 100kHz waveform is not the same as 60Hz sinusoid from the line.

100khz at the controller or motor block?

 

[ksed]

How much ? Maybe 1-2% in good performed DC motorblocks and electronic and 50 % in bad AC motorblocks with large heattransfers ?
A DC pump can be very bad if you use bad components, such as SquareWave technology instead of Sine Wave, large gap between rotor and stator, bad hydraulic and so on.

The future are electronically commutated motors.

best regards .. .Klaus

1-2 % losses at the controller? If this was the case your controller would not produce any heat. Which is not the case!!!!

 

[jkapit]

We have both : AC and DC motorblocks. And i can tell you, DC-technology is significant better in Silence, energyconsuption and Efficiency.
We can perfectly simulate different operating conditions on our pump test stand.

Efficiency of a AC motor has 30-50 %, DC= 80 - 94 %

best regards ... Klaus

Hi Klaus, good to see you on the forum. I was one of your early Bubble king customers in the US, still have my 300Ext running strong since 2006.

Best,

Joel

 

[ksed]

The efficiency of thDC technology comes in the design of the impeller.
DC due to the soft start allows a different design of the impellers making it slightly more efficient at high head pressure. With AC the design of the impeller is limited but the immediate torque, therefore the design maybe compromised slightly.
For example look at AC pinwheel vs DC pinwheel skimmers AC are just as if not more efficient. Very low torque is needed.

 

[Lsufan]

Sp6 purchased! Thanks folks!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

There isn't a pump even remotely close in cost that I would trade my sp6 for. I think u definitely made a good choice

 

[Alfrareef]

Sorry to break in but AC/DC it all depends on the purpose.
About the efficiency ratios (30-80%) that I've read in the previous post I don't know what all are talking about but all electrical engines have more than 90% efficiency. Energy spend vs energy produced.
As per the end efficiency it all depends on the design, materials and the way you measure it.

 

[ksed]

DC pumps are also most efficient when they are run at reduced speeds. But if running a pump at full load I really don't know how much efficiency is gained by running DC.

 

[tjnorthdakota]

Personally it doesn't matter to me what is more efficient, to me its about controllability. Dc pumps are controllable in this hobby and ac are not. I have a ac pump as my main return and hate it because of the surge I get upon starting and stopping it, no ramp up, no feed mode and if I put my hand on it, it feels warmer than the jebao pump running right next to it rated similar gpm. On a side note jebao, waveline, reef octopus, simplicity pumps all look the same to me, wouldn't surprise me if jebao made them all. only difference seems to be the controller part of the pump and programming involved.

 

[jda]

They are the same. They are made in one factory in China with different colors. Jebao then stole their work and sold it as their own - this is how they do their products... patent stealing knockoffs.