DC vs AC return pumps. Reliability question.

[gcarroll]

DC is cheaper, more efficient and more quiet. If reliability is a concern, then put redundant loops and keep a spare. It would still be cheaper.

I'm not so sure your math adds up. A lot of myth in that statement.

 

[karimwassef]

Try it.. I run 5 DCT15000 @ $670 @ 4' head = 2900 gph x 5 = 14,500 gph (some in surge, some direct flow). They consume 500W.

So.. $670 , 500W, 14,500 gph @ 4' head, quiet (subjective, but not myth).

source: https://www.amazon.com/Jebao-DCT-15000-Marine-Controllable-Water/dp/B00ZVGE9MI
http://www.aac-online.co.uk/119-pos_thickbox/dct15000-jecod-dct15000-10-speed-dc-pump.jpg

Which AC pump would you like to compare to?

 

[karimwassef]

Hammerhead claims 5,500 gph @ 4' head and 337W @ $415

So.. let's say we need 3... or ratiometrically, 2.6x

that's effectively $1100, 900W, 14,500 gph @ 4' head, and much louder (I've owned both) - sold the Hammerhead.

source: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reeflo-barracuda-hammerhead-hybrid-6000-4590gph.html
http://media.cdn.bulkreefsupply.com...11254bcc6fe/h/a/ham-bar-dart-snap-sword_2.jpg

 

[karimwassef]

so... with 5 DC pumps, I have massive redundancy at a little over half the cost and half the power usage for the same flow.

I do math for a living

I'm open to other pumps, so let's get the data and do the math there.. the target is to get to 15,000 gph (for my current tank).

My next tank drives 40,000 gph and uses powerheads more than circulating pumps for even more efficiency per flow. If there are better options, I'm listening.

 

[gcarroll]

Try it.. I run 5 DCT15000 @ $670 @ 4' head = 2900 gph x 5 = 14,500 gph (some in surge, some direct flow). They consume 500W.

So.. $670 , 500W, 14,500 gph @ 4' head, quiet (subjective, but not myth).

source: https://www.amazon.com/Jebao-DCT-15000-Marine-Controllable-Water/dp/B00ZVGE9MI
http://www.aac-online.co.uk/119-pos_thickbox/dct15000-jecod-dct15000-10-speed-dc-pump.jpg

Which AC pump would you like to compare to?

How are you calculating the 2900 gph?

 

[karimwassef]

4' = 1.2 meters
the chart points to 11000 L/h
11000 L/h = 2900 gph

 

[karimwassef]

I also confirmed the flow while I was testing my DIY controller (that eventually didn't work, but still )

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/b7CVC9NgkdE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

my test method was crude, I ran a pipe into a bucket and measured how many seconds it took to fill.

 

[alton]

Which is why the electrician is incorrect

So using a watt meter can you prove the name plate wrong? And why would a manufacture list the wrong wattage usage on there product. When I buy a pump, that is the first thing I compare.

 

[jda]

The manufacturer puts the maximum pull on the plate. You can pull less depending on your application.

I think that you need to kill-a-watt that 15000. I stupidly used one, the coralife version which is exactly the same except for the color (before it failed - twice) and it was like 175-177 watts at full tilt. The Laguna that I put back on had more flow (observation, not a flow meter) and was only 141 watts. DC pumps do not push as much or use as few watts as what the manufacturers say once you put more than a few feet of head on them. I would believe Spicer before I would believe a flow chart from a Chinese patent stealing organization.

 

[DrBoxedWine]

Alrighty folks, let's not lose focus of this thread... Me

Bullet proof is important to me. I want a very small chance that this thing stops working unexpectedly (Reef equipment always seems to break at the absolute worst time).

I'm looking at the Tunze 1073.110: http://www.marinedepot.com/Tunze_Si...Aquarium_Pumps-Tunze-TZ71073-FIWPSBTO-vi.html

It says its a similar power draw to the mag. What are people's thoughts on the heat issues? Is Tunze likely to have less heat issues than a mag drive 18?

I'm also interested in the Fluval SP6. The price is about 60% of the Tunze and it looks like flow will be more than adequate. It actually is rated with higher flow than the Tunze.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Fluval_S...quarium_Pumps-Fluval-HG14339-FIWPSBTO-vi.html

Anyone have any thoughts on these brands? gcaroll, i feel like i've seen you mention you like the sp6?

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

I hear good things about the Fluval line.
If I needed a new pump it would be a Fluval.

 

[alton]

The Tunze you listed is 125 to 150 watts/ Fluval @135w, which if submersed still equals heat. Tunze makes great products and the Danner mag pumps will go 5+ years with no issues. As a matter of fact I believe Danner gives a 5 year warranty? The only issue I had with a mag pump was after 5 years the current draw was 50% more than the name plate so I replaced it. Bullet Proof, I would say all three listed would fit the comment. (Sorry I did not mean to derail your thread)

 

[ksed]

The manufacturer puts the maximum pull on the plate. You can pull less depending on your application.

I think that you need to kill-a-watt that 15000. I stupidly used one, the coralife version which is exactly the same except for the color (before it failed - twice) and it was like 175-177 watts at full tilt. The Laguna that I put back on had more flow (observation, not a flow meter) and was only 141 watts. DC pumps do not push as much or use as few watts as what the manufacturers say once you put more than a few feet of head on them. I would believe Spicer before I would believe a flow chart from a Chinese patent stealing organization.

Correct

 

[ksed]

So using a watt meter can you prove the name plate wrong? And why would a manufacture list the wrong wattage usage on there product. When I buy a pump, that is the first thing I compare.

When you add head pressure, you are moving less water, when you move less water, less work is being done, therefore wattage reflects that and goes down.
What is stated on the plate is wattage at 0 head.

 

[ksed]

The Tunze you listed is 125 to 150 watts/ Fluval @135w, which if submersed still equals heat. Tunze makes great products and the Danner mag pumps will go 5+ years with no issues. As a matter of fact I believe Danner gives a 5 year warranty? The only issue I had with a mag pump was after 5 years the current draw was 50% more than the name plate so I replaced it. Bullet Proof, I would say all three listed would fit the comment. (Sorry I did not mean to derail your thread)

Out of all the pumps listed the Fluval is the most efficient. Watt/Flow.
It is also the quietest of the bunch. The specs on the Tunze may be slightly inflated, if my memory serves me correct.

 

[karimwassef]

I did better than a kill-o-watt. I measured V and A DC and the same AC on the rectifier.

It consumes less than the rated 105W. Verified by others too.

This isn't about China or Europe. It's about physics.

 

[alton]

Well at least you didn't mention Rio which is what I have at work and just tested. Rio 2100 name plate 37 watts, but on the amp meter .5 both with plumbing hooked up 4' lift and 1- 90, or no plumbing running with no pressure. E=120v x I=.5 = P or 60 watts.

 

[gcarroll]

I did better than a kill-o-watt. I measured V and A DC and the same AC on the rectifier.

It consumes less than the rated 105W. Verified by others too.

This isn't about China or Europe. It's about physics.

And how did you measure the flow?

 

[gcarroll]

Anyone have any thoughts on these brands? gcaroll, i feel like i've seen you mention you like the sp6?

Like ksed, I would go with the SP6 above all the others. Moves, a ton of water, Askoll motor has been around for decades and has proven reliability. It can be run internal or external.

 

[karimwassef]

And how did you measure the flow?

Measured the time it takes to fill a 5gal bucket at a trip switch. Actually lined up with the graph.