DI water only

I too enjoyed your presentation (and show?) at IMAC, Anthony. :D

But the difficulty with DI is the quality. It is an admirable goal to want to use DI, but if the public water supply is such that the DI can't remove some of the offending ingredients, it is a frustrating and risky proposition to stick with DI.

My whole house is on a DI system with a salt recharging system. Added on to this is an RO unit which fills an 80gallon storage tank for my 'tank room.' I get a usual reading of 6 TDS from this water, no silicates, etc., etc.

The cost is about $10/500 gallons for the DI regenerator (the DI resin is guaranteed to me for a 'life time') and $100/15,000 gallons for the RO membrane. PLUS the wasted water.

The system is commercial and used by many of the electroplating firms others have posted about in this thread.

Although my city water is never in short supply (it is well water --- one of the worst in quality -- no rationing ever needed), it is about 15% the cost of the water in Los Angeles.

Although we should all be energy/conservation conscious, it's hard for everyone to enjoy driving around a Geo, when the 'Caddy' is only a bit more to operate, and safer. :cool:
 
My whole house is on a DI system with a salt recharging system

My whole house is on a DI system with a salt recharging system

Lee:
If you dont mind me asking....what is the "system Cost " for this house sized unit.

Bill
 
Hmmm... I'm not sure what "expense" is being incurred by your industrial folks... but in my line of "work" dealing with huge freshwater, saltwater hatcheries/fisheries... running my own greenhouse (tens of thousands of gallons of water run through it)... I can say with real practical experience for having actually used and monitored DI systems that they are dirt cheap to operate and produce superb quality water.

I build a (coral-farming) business on it in fact (and a 3K gallon discus hatchery before it).

Lets be specific here:

A Kati Ani 5 (several pounds of resin) produced several thousands of gallons of water before needing to be recharged on the quality of my mains water. TDS on product water (no waste water) was single digits (always well under 10 ppm).

The cost to recharge it was 1/3 of a bottle each of Muriatic acid and Red Devil drain cleaner. Mere dollars per recharge.

For my GH (which fluxed 5-8K total gallons of water), I can't say that I ever spent over $30 per year on the acid and base to recharge my 2-column DI unit.

$30 per year!

No membranes to replace or fail.

And a resin that is nearly fully rechargeable and will not build up a "memory" to any significant degree in my lifetime.

The reticence to use DI is largely founded on unrealistic fears and from folks that have not actually used these units at home or have not seen fellow aquarists/fishrooms, fisheries use them so easily.

Muriatic acid is produced by the hundreds of thousands of gallons. Its in more home garages and basements than you might give a thought to (used for example to clean your tools).

Red Devil lye... come on! Its just drain cleaner. Is it dangerous? Sure. But so is extremely caustic Calcium hydroxide (kalkwasser). If you spill bleach or lye on your skin, it can burn you indeed. But if you inhale calcium hydroxide... you are(!) going tot he hospital.

So... along with pitching out DI and recharge chemicals, should we also throw out our Calcium hydroxide... and iodine... and jewelry cleaner... and gasoline from the shed...(you get my point)

On the danger scale... the acid and base chemicals for recharging DI are no worse (or less so) than many of the household chemicals you already have, or other reef additives.

And it is dirt cheap, easily neutralized and a fraction of the cost to operate compared to RO.

As for quality... again:

The majority of labs that I have studied or worked in are using DI (not RO). And it s not because it is cheaper to produce. Its for quality.

The real issue here is quality of the resin.

The resins used cheap hobby mixed bed deionizers versus industrial/commercial 2-column deionizers may be very(!) different.

Lets be sure we are comparing apples to apples here :p
 
Hmmm... I'm not sure what "expense" is being incurred by your industrial folks

Hmmm... I'm not sure what "expense" is being incurred by your industrial folks

Mr. Calfo:
In a way you may be right. Our facility has a cost of about $35/$40 per 1000 gal of RO/DI. when you factor the cost of materials and the labor to manage and monitor this system. Pretty cheap if you can get a 1000 gal of Hi quality 18 MegOhm water for $40.
In our case, when you multiply that by 2 million gallons per month...............we are talking serious money.

As far as safety I accept your point about bleach and iodine and drain cleaners. I do use Kalk and believe me I am EXTREMELY cautious when handling (and Breathing) it. Kalk IS difficult to handle.

Many of the people on this board may find many of the maintaince requirements of a reef to be a tedious chore already. If we are to add regeneration of Anions and Cations , I guess that it must be done in large enough a system so as to reduce the amount of times required to do so in the course of a year. In my case I was using 10" canisters of mixed bed and therefore changing them out every 50 gallons was becoming just another maintenance chore besides the expense.

Regards,
Bill
 
spot on Bill :)

and very good point as well about the practical reality of reefkeeprs. Legitimately... many of us are already disinclined to even keep up with the (best case) daily cleaning of skimmer necks/cups for optimal skimming. With that and other necessary tasks... to add one more thing like DI recharge is indeed an inconvenience for some.

I just make the strong point above (and beyond) for those that are truly in need/desire for purified water. We have to pay to play, as they say.

Such folks will have to make the effort, and given to choose between frequent purging/backwashing of an RO membrane, the expense of its replacement and the somewhat variable quality of water produced (as the membrane ages and gets clogged before backwashing)... then the half dozen or so recharges per year at modest expense for DI with no placement costs is at least a wash on consideration. And really a better way IMO.

The other point not hammered on here is in regard to folks with really poor quality souce water. Such will be a burden on either RO or DI (more frequent backwashing/recharging). But DI always and only costs those few dollars per recharge... while frequent replacement of membranes for RO can be a staggering expense!

So for folks with really bad tap water... DI is a stronger candidate for its cheaper cost of ongoing operation.

FWIW

Anthony :)
 
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What's a guy to do?

All I could do is get four people to come in and advise me on what system to use to obtain the water quality I wanted. One supplier offers more than 100 different systems.

I asked for reports on what choices of water quality could I get. No DI system offered could obtain silicate, phosphate, and nitrate free water on a consistent basis from the well water. Even the company that only offered DI couldn't achieve it. They would promise an acidic water with no better than 10 TDS, with a dual resin system.

It could be a matter of the right resin, but the right resin isn't available in my neighborhood. :confused:
 
WIKI2ECHO,

I don't mind.
The 'package' was this:
  • A year's supply of soaps (detergent, dish, hand)
  • 10 gallon of new resin
  • Resin guaranteed for my life (anything goes wrong, they replace it n/c)
  • 4 month supply of recharge salts
  • House is tied in to the resin (all water)
  • R/O is tied in to two sinks and fish room faucet and ice maker
  • Faucets/hardware and plumbing included (my plumbing required a person familiar with its type --- it is a new type of plastic piping)
  • 5 stage R/O after the DI treatment
  • Dual commercial membrane rated total of 100g/day
  • Membranes guaranteed to last 15,000 gallons of RO (replaced for free if they don't make it) so they might go 20K?
  • 80 gallon storage tank, connected
  • Shed built around the storage tank (I have to paint it)
  • Carbon filter after the storage tank
  • Storage tank cement platform on ground
  • Electronic control panel: Alert when more salt is needed; indicates how much salt is left; timer for when alerts should be given; manual recharge control, clock, battery backup, etc.)
  • Annual system check (they send technician out to test water, test system and verify it working properly, once per year as long as I own the system)
  • 4 valve controls (I can divert RO waste water to lawn; use RO waste water to hose down drive or any outside use; use city water outside; or use DI water outside --- depending on valve settings)
  • System guaranteed as long as I own it (service/repair/replacement is n/c)
  • $3000 including $500 for the tank I wanted (or, $2500 plus the $500 tank)
I was pleased with their professionalism and timeliness. System was installed and working the first time, 6 calendar days from my go ahead. Financing available; credit cards; or cash. It took two people a 7-hour day to install it from knock on my door to pulling out of my drive.

Not cheap. But it is to me 'safe.' I don't worry about what quality I'm getting (though I check it routinely). What's most important to me is the installation and support. $$American labor$$. . .:D I know enough about mechanical--handyman things to know I can't/don't do it right!

Some quotes were higher, one was lower without the support.
 
Hi Anthony et al,
I haven't seen it mentioned previously (if it was, well :D ), but are there any concerns for tap water that may contain high levels of chlorine or chloramine or does these rechargeable system usually come with a activated carbon pre-filter?
Based on my experience with the Tapwater purifier, a rechargeable DI system would be great. The tapwater purifier would consistently produce water with 0 uS/cm conductivity with the only limitation being how much it would produce before it was exhausted based on it small size and your tap water quality.
RO/DI works great, but the waste was what prevented me from getting it for a long while and now that I have one, it bothers the hell out of me.:rolleye1:
 
hey, Marc! Cheers to Jamaica :)

Yes... the chlorine is no worry with DI systems as it is with some RO membranes.

Still... a good micron and carbon prefilter is a fab idea for RO or DI.

Lee... the problems you are having with finding the right DI resin is indeed that the salesmen you are chatting with are using/selling resins marketed/engineered for a different industry (potable water). As such... some things that can safely be admitted with potable drinking water may be completely undesirable,

I've bought several of the aforementioned German resin deionizers in the last 15 years... and my next one will likely be the same (even if I have to have it shipped from Germany) :) It's not that big of a deal :p
 
You're more than likely correct, Anthony. Still I'm left with how/where to get the right resin; making sure it is the right resin; who will install it; and what it will take for maintenance. I'm open, except to the suggestion that I can install it myself. :D
 
There are numerous free online translators (google). You could type an English inquiry and then send it to the German folks looking to buy a turnkey system.

I wonder too if they are available i the UK (seems likely). Easy then to chat with an Englishman and have one sent across the pond. Do be resourceful here my friend. The Internet is an amazing tool... google til you can't google no more :p
 
Anthony Calfo said:
hey, Marc! Cheers to Jamaica :)
Click to expand...
Whew, just got missed by hurricane Dennis (the menace). Still getting the wind and rain as I type, so I needed that 'cheers' :)

overanalyzer, not a thing wrong with that unit. That seem like it could do the trick. Thanks for those links.
If only I had seen that before I bought my RO/DI.:rolleyes:
I have a few friends I could recommend it to though.
 
ah... very good to hear you are safe, Marc!

To all... do seek separate bed deionizers, rather than mixed bed. More economical in the long run. Not wasteful (throwing away resin)
 
Anthony,

I think you were hitting the vino a little too hard last night. All three of the above links took you to information about the same Kent Marine Deion 200-R rechargeable, separate resin deionizer.
 
Thanks!
I am checking into seeing if I can just get the resins and convert my RO/DI to just DI. If not I am going to get one also.
 
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