DI water only

Anthony,

I assume your questions were not directed at myself. I'm asking for info on it too.

Why are you willing to believe the Kent DI post that no water can be better, but not this post? It clearly says there is no wasted water. The person I heard about it from isn't using any waste water. There is none. I'm trying to get the tech specs on it or to learn more about it. Is it magic?

Someone is thinking outside the box or it's all in advertising. :D
 
Anthony,

I am interested in trying the DI only route but have a few questions before I commit the money and time. My citys' tap water is fairly good so I'm not overly concerned about having a high TDS to start with.

Is there a "Beginners / Idiots Guide to DI" book or similar reference avalable for those of us who are in the dark on this subject? A comprehensive discussion of the subject would be great but if that's not available, a list of FAQs would help. I have googled looking for anything that I can find but other than large scale, commercial systems there is very little out there. Would there be any copies ( or even a synopsis ) of your presentaton at IMAC available for us to read and hopefully get "jump started"?

I have also seen mentioned that German resins should be used and would like the reasoning behind that. I'm sure that they would cost appreciably more and therefore make moving to DI a bit more expensive but if they are more desirable, I would be willing to go the extra expense. I guess what I want to know is are the German resins better than the resins available in the US and if so could you explain how they are better / why we would want to use them instead?

I have googled myself silly and can only find references to companies that will perform regeneration services for me. Needless to say, I'm sure that it would not be nearly as cost-effective as me doing it myself. I have read about the lye and acid and can get these items with no problem but am wondering what to do after I get them ( ie. How to use them ). The exact processes are what I need to know as they will help me to determine whether this is something I want to / should attempt. I'm by no means a chemist so the reactions that are taking place are not important to me but the steps taken and equipment needed to perform these reactions are. Can you describe the procedures and equipment required to regenerate the CAT and ANI resins?

Your help is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 
It's a ruse!

Here's the scoop on that link above. . .Gotten from another thread:
it pumps the waste water into the hot water line. literally zero waste water!with the zero waste unit at just over $300 with tax and shipping for a 25gpd...it would take a very long time to make up the money in saving waste water when buying a cheaper more power unit. I bought it because I would rather conserve mother natures resources rather than waste it.

Oh well! So much for advertising. :D
 
leebca said:
It's a ruse!

Here's the scoop on that link above. . .Gotten from another thread:


Oh well! So much for advertising. :D
Well, at least the water is going somewhere, but I can't understand the logic in pumping it into your hot water line. I can see it now. My wife gets a jolt of cold water in the shower because I am making water for my fish tanks. :D
 
capncapo said:


I have also seen mentioned that German resins should be used and would like the reasoning behind that. I'm sure that they would cost appreciably more and therefore make moving to DI a bit more expensive but if they are more desirable, I would be willing to go the extra expense. I guess what I want to know is are the German resins better than the resins available in the US and if so could you explain how they are better / why we would want to use them instead?

I have googled myself silly

Hmm I was just thinking I'd use the rechargeable resins that came with the unit that was posted earlier. I have seen a few sites where you can buy resin but I think it is in massive quanties... I think the reference to the german company was because people could not find a rechargeable DI only unit here The Kent deion 200-r though fits the bill.

Is the quality of resins a factor in length of life or quality of filtration - or both??

If you can lay your hands on the recharging chemicals then I believe that the resins will last for a long time.

The unit description is here: http://www.kentmarine.com/waterfilters/d200r.html

or google "deion 200-r" and look for the freshwater supply store (I believe)
 
The water heater thing works, if you have a heater that is a storage tank sort of thing. If the water is heated 'on demand' I can't see the waste water being of much use to that system. :D
 
everybody interested in setting up a DI only system can also check out their local water purification company. Look under water purification in the yahoo yellow pages for your zip code.

when i bought bulk mixed bed resin (half a cubic foot) for my RODI from a local place, they had to scramble to find such little quantity of resin. Apparently they deal with MUCH larger quantities.

I got a quick tour of the facility and what they deal in. It's similar to exchanging CO2 for your calcium reactor except on a larger scale. You get this giant (5 foot tall) canister of freshly regenerated resin that will make a few thousand gallons of water. And when it's exhausted, you bring it back in and exchange it for a fresh one (or you can have them deliver).

IIRC the cost per gallon was much less than a consumer RODI that most of us use... though you would need a much bigger system than mine to get that convenience.
 
it pumps the waste water into the hot water line. literally zero waste water!with the zero waste unit at just over $300 with tax and shipping for a 25gpd...it would take a very long time to make up the money in saving waste water when buying a cheaper more power unit. I bought it because I would rather conserve mother natures resources rather than waste it.
Ummm yah I'll skip on this and happily "waste" water. Here 740+ gallons of water (what the water dept calls 1 unit) cost something like $3-4 and that's with the sewage cost too! So that's about 150gallons worth of RO/DI water.
 
an interesting comment:

from the (IMO) highly reputable company Seachem (that employs chemists and does good R&D unlike many reef product mfgs)

... they state in tests kits like their iodine test kit:

"... fill empty plastic vial to thread level with deionized (DI) or distilled water (not supplied)... (RO) water may not(!)[sic] be sufficiently pure;"

This is coming from one of the oldest manufacturers of reef products in the nation... selling chemicals and reagents no less... and not(!) selling RO or DI units BTW ;)

It proves nothing, but says a lot.
 
It wouldn't be the first time Seachem has made an incorrect statement. :D It depends on what the interferring substances are. It could be that ions the size of water molecules or less might interfere with the test. I wouldn't use an RO without a DI. THAT would be a signficant waste where my source water TDS is 350+!
 
it would be nice to hear your qualifying statement about their incorrect info, Lee. I'm hoping you aren't just taking a cheap shot because you like RO and want to waste a limited resource.

And... your opinion on how much good information Seachem put's out relative to bad... and relative to their competition, would be welcome. Or again... did you just want to make a grumpy comment?

Unlike their competitors... I don't see mudslinging campaigns initiated... they don't threaten to sue new companies into poverty and steal their ideas/products... they don't slip sugar or pear/apple-juice in bottles to stimulate/irritate coral polyps and trick you into believing their reef supplements are magic...they do not fill their plankton bottles with 98% water... no borax in a bottle to kill aiptasia, etc.

I guess what I'm really asking you Lee, relative to Seachem alone, is do you think they overwhelmingly serve the greater good?

Or are you not qualified enough (experience) with their product line to make that statement... or the comment about incorrect statements issued by them?

While we are at it... are you stating for the record that it was misinformation... or incorrect? Fraud or an accident?
 
because you like RO and want to waste a limited resource.
and that isn't a cheap shot? :rolleyes:

Seachem produced a lot of bad copper medication. Some threads here talk about it. They first denied it, then acknowledged it.

I don't like RO -- I need it for my purposes. So far I've not seen a suitable replacement. There is a place and time for everything under the Sun. I assume you don't drive a car to save gas and the environment?

Seachem has to sell, like you do. They make a few products that are often either not needed or of little value (like Paragard eradicating Cryptocaryon irritans; and trace additives, for examples). But for the most part they are a reliable source of medications and reef additives. Compared to some of their competitors, they are a cut above them. I wouldn't even consider an organization like Kent in their league.

My 4 years work at OSU studying Cryptocaryon irritans, treatments, garlic, and dips, plus keeping abreast of current studies, does put me in an experienced, qualified position to evaluate their statements regarding this disease organism. Owning a marine aquarium fish store makes me very familiar with their product line (both the valuable and not-so-valuable).

But, Seachem Anthony is not infallible. No organization is, because they are people and people basically are not infallible. I've responded to threads where Seachem has made statements regarding Marine Ich that doesn't match what studies have shown. On purpose? A mistake? I don't know. I don't consider them to be malicious, more like misguided.

Regarding Seachem not selling RO/DI. You'd might want to check out their site. They sell both. It is their Pinnacle brand. In fact they recommend the use of RO/DI when the source water is of poor quality (like mine). Oops! Looks like you're not infallible either. :D

I don't know of any organization that serves the greater good when their stockholders demand a higher return than bank interest on their investments. Do you? I think their products are generally a cut above the rest, but serving the greater good? Not. They serve their stockholders.

But. . .do you want this to be a Seachem thread? Cheap shot thread? or a thread on water?
 
commenting and answering your questions in sequence, Lee:

-- "and that isn't a cheap shot?"

yes... it was. One good turn, as they say. You crying foul is about as ironic as the second man in a hockey fight getting penalized :D

Both of us are answering queries late tonight and at least one of us is tired/less patient. Speaking for myself, that is.

-- "I assume you don't drive a car to save gas and the environment?"

In fact... I have driven less than 3K miles annually for over ten years now. In large part because I make a concerted effort to live as gently on this planet as possible.

I carpool when I can... mailorder and then recyle the boxes... I save the plastic bags I get form local merchants and bring them (with food donations) to the local food pantry... I save all mail and envelopes with unprinted sides or blank spaces for use in taking notes... leave the caps off of bottles that cannot be recylced so they collapse and take up less space in land fills, and recycle all other bottles/materials that I can... etc.

heehee... I could go on for quite a while here. But, point is that I do practice what I preach. I am considerate of all my actions, and respond to inefficiencies pointed out to me :D

With that said... can we agree to both pass on making jabs in future posts, now? At least for this thread.

-- "Seachem has to sell, like you do."

actually... I don't "sell" as it is/would be commonly defined. The staggering majority of my considerable time spent on this hobby we both love so much... is volunteer. The majority of my articles are given freely and reprinted/shared freely. As are my images (with permissiongranted/photo credits given). Re: my book writing... guess what? We spent just under 100K to produce the first two pressings of "Reef Invertebrates" and my total return to date has been... $5K

if you add up the 2 years it took to write it... the 2 years since spent promoting the information to hobbyists, etc... and divide that into $5K, I'm wondering if who would consider that profitable?

Not a lot of people would float that kind of cash and wait that long for such a small return.

You can fault me for vanity... desirous of pride in accomplishment, etc... etc., but a sales analogy does not stick here.

I'm answering queries and sharing opinions with other folks for the exact same price you paid me ;)

I do appreciate your recognition of a good organization like Seachem above other less illustrious competitors. And... indeed, I appreciate the fact that they too have failed or flawed products.

I just regret to see unchecked criticisms of otherwise quality merchants/businesses. Too many uninformed people take what they read on the Internet as fact or endorsement.

-- "Oops! Looks like you're not infallible either. "

Yikes! Quite so. My bad/apologies! :D

Yet it still supports my argument that they favor DI. They sell RO as well as DI yet make it clear that they recommend DI over RO. And they do not specify that they are talking about their brand units (as mfgs will commonly do in such product literature)... but rather they are speaking generically. A reader like myself can presume that they mean that most or enough RO units used by hobbyists are inferior to DI to even make the statement.

It is the very crux of my point all along.

-- "But. . .do you want this to be a Seachem thread? Cheap shot thread? or a thread on water"

I would like it to be productive and polite above all. In continuing the thread, my post above cited a specific, reputable company... and a specific product that anyone could verify.

Your statement was a vague and unqualified remark about a mfg that I took umbrage with. It did not seem productive at least, and was unfair at worst IMO.

No more... no less. :)
 
Your post surprised me (pleasantly). I am not in a pi$$ing match here as I think you know. The written word can give false impressions of the attitude of the writer. Mine has always been from a position of live-and-let-live, open-mindedness, curiosity, and non-judging. Part of my current job is to investigate fatalities and serious injuries and this approach works well.

You're not being (IMHO) vain. I don't (I hope) appear that way either. I don't mention my 36 years in marine aquariums with 10 years prior to that in freshwater; my two college degrees; studies; ownerships; papers; volunteering hundreds of hours on RC (mostly in the Fish Disease Treatment Forum); IQ; etc unless asked or when I think I'm being judged without the judge knowing me or having all the info about me.

You see, I didn't see my post to be a cheap shot (at Seachem or anyone). You're right that it was vague and unsubstantiated. But why not just ask for more info? -- comments not needed until the facts have been gathered. Maybe we were too tired! :)

Seachem can make a mistake (in statement and deed). But I think this particular statement is not necessarily a condemnation of RO (nor a preference to DI over RO) as you seemed to interpret it. It was likely a chemical fact that the RO system might let something through the membrane that interferes with their test, not a judgement on the RO system. Thus, their warning that RO wouldn't be good enough, was technically based relative to the test, not a general condemnation of RO. Still, I'd like to clearly hear this from them, that they condemn RO, believe DI is preferred over a DI/RO system. Because, that DI is preferred over RO only goes without saying -- with consideration given to the source water contaminants.

I'm glad you practice what you preach. Just please take your yard stick off my back. :D No one will stop me from wasting anything by calling me names, making me feel badly, or insulting me. If anyone is serious about stopping others from wasting anything, then let them persuade or lobby for new legislation. The other tactics just elevate animosity and I think accomplish what you don't want. . .unproductive and impolite.

Selling comes in all forms -- selling isn't always for money.

I'm interested in why you wrote that, "They [Seachem] sell RO as well as DI yet make it clear that they recommend DI over RO." The literature I see says they have 3 RO units and 1 RO/DI unit for sale. Do they have a written recommendation of DI over RO somewhere?

It could be worthwhile to post with the understanding that we should take some time to inquire, gather info, investigate, and learn why, how, where, etc. the other is coming from. It could be.

I've enjoyed our digression.:dance:
 
fishdr said:

fishdr, did you get the unit you ordered? Any problems with the order? I went to the site and noticed they had good prices on several items, but I also clicked on the BBB link at the top of the page and found that they have had some problems. Here's a quote from http://www.bbbnebraska.org/commonreport.html?bid=113002629 :

"Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to unanswered complaints.

On December 15th, this company's membership in the Better Business Bureau was terminated by the Board of Directors for violation of BBB Membership Standards. Specifically, no follow through on complaints and unanswered complaint(s). Additionally, the company is falsly advertising that it is a member of our Better Business Bureau. "

Anybody else order from these folks?

Also, anybody had any experience with this Kent DI unit? Is the TDS reading 0 on the output?

Thanks.
 
I had ordered a whole bunch of live freshwater platns from them a while back, over $100 worth. I found them to very responsive. They even replaced soem plants for free that didn't take to my tank initially.
 
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