DI water only

I got a reply from Aquatechnic once I translated my email into German and resent it. They gave me the name and email address of an individual. I contact him and he replied that his website for selling these units is not up yet. But, he will inform me when he is ready for business. And, when he does, I will pass the information along.
 
My unit had produced 40 galons so far, and the resins had changed color already I would say like 1/3 of the canister. Is there something wrong with the unit? At this rate I will get like 80 more gallons.

I am planning on buying the resins, not recharging.

Thanks
Edgar
 
I evaporate about 10gpd as it is now and will be doubling that in the near future....I would need extremely large containers for the kati/ani resins and a LOT of resin to fill them. Add to this the time to recharge the resins with chemicals and it sounds impractical for my needs.

Dave:(
 
Are all DI resins rechargeable? I have recharged my TWP many times and the colors of the resin all matched the recharge instructions. I recently recharged a mixed bed DI cartridge that came with my RO/DI and the resin colors do not match as described for the TWP. Are different brands of resins different colors?
 
MichaelKim said:
Are all DI resins rechargeable? I have recharged my TWP many times and the colors of the resin all matched the recharge instructions. I recently recharged a mixed bed DI cartridge that came with my RO/DI and the resin colors do not match as described for the TWP. Are different brands of resins different colors?
There are many different brands of resin each with its own color and not all of them change colors.
 
So can any anionic resin be mixed with another anionic resin in a bed?
And where can you find pure sodium hydroxide? It seems all the crackhead/meph freaks in Arkansas have pretty much guaranteed you can't go to the grocery store and get Red Devil Lye.
 
somebody posted a nice link to resindepot.com, Thanks, now if somebody else would kindly post the following.

Which resins to order.

Can I retrofit my current RO/DI system?
 
Aquaman,

You can buy seperate cation and anion resins from them. But they recommend using mixed bed resins. They used to have a package deal for us aquarists on their website, but I don't see it any longer. (it's been a long time since I ordered)
I believe this http://www.resindepot.com/shopexd.asp?id=5494 is the most likely culprit, but you might just want to contact them to be sure. They have posted here before and been very helpful.

The guy from Resin Depot chimes in on page 3 of http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=67501&perpage=25&pagenumber=1 this thread with lots of info.

Here is one quote indicating his preference for RO plus DI as well as using a mixed bed over seperate resins.

"it is important to know that there is a vast difference in water purity when you use a seperate cation and anion mixture as schanz is recomending. What he describes is a "seperate bed deionizer" does not remove all the ions in the water you are making. You need a mixed bed to do that. Also R.O. removes pestecides and other "organic" compounds in water. D.I. Does not, that is why you should be using Reverse osmosis and mixed bed deionization in your reef tanks. When water evaporates only the H and OH (H20) leave your tank. So when you want to replace it you only want to add back in H and OH and you need mixed bed ion exchange to do that."


He goes into more detail on the benefits of mixed bed over seperate later in the thread.

Dan
 
DKKA said:
Aquaman,

You can buy seperate cation and anion resins from them. But they recommend using mixed bed resins. They used to have a package deal for us aquarists on their website, but I don't see it any longer. (it's been a long time since I ordered)
I believe this http://www.resindepot.com/shopexd.asp?id=5494 is the most likely culprit, but you might just want to contact them to be sure. They have posted here before and been very helpful.

The guy from Resin Depot chimes in on page 3 of http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=67501&perpage=25&pagenumber=1 this thread with lots of info.

Here is one quote indicating his preference for RO plus DI as well as using a mixed bed over seperate resins.

"it is important to know that there is a vast difference in water purity when you use a seperate cation and anion mixture as schanz is recomending. What he describes is a "seperate bed deionizer" does not remove all the ions in the water you are making. You need a mixed bed to do that. Also R.O. removes pestecides and other "organic" compounds in water. D.I. Does not, that is why you should be using Reverse osmosis and mixed bed deionization in your reef tanks. When water evaporates only the H and OH (H20) leave your tank. So when you want to replace it you only want to add back in H and OH and you need mixed bed ion exchange to do that."


He goes into more detail on the benefits of mixed bed over seperate later in the thread.

Dan
I went through and scanned that thread for the quotes above and found it on page 6, for anyone else interested. I had to read it myself direct from the source because I found the statement ridiculous on its face. I was hoping that it was misquoted somehow. I cannot for the life of me understand how having two resins, in one instance mixed and in another instance separate makes any difference whatsoever.

Unfortunately, resindepot's last post was made 4/19/2002.
 
and FWIW, from the current Kent Marine Annual Product Guide (page 066)

"DEION units will generally produce better quality water than RO, but for a shorter time, and with more maintenance."

Now as for the "more maintenance", Yes - indeed it is... by virtue of the fact that it is regenerable(!). That's a good thing :)

As opposed to lower maintenance throw away membranes and their ongoing higher expense (than cheap recharge household chemicals for DI units)
 
Anthony, where can one purchase Red Devil Lye and muriatic acid, and would it be possible to post the instructions? Thank you so much.
 
I bought the Red Devil Lye at a hardware store and the muriatic acid in the pool supply section of Home Depot.
I purchased the Kent Deion 200R about a month ago. I'm real happy with the results. My tap water has a TDS reading of 375 and the filtered water has a reading of 001. I'm very happy with the unit. Mary
 
DKKA said:
Aquaman,

You can buy seperate cation and anion resins from them. But they recommend using mixed bed resins. They used to have a package deal for us aquarists on their website, but I don't see it any longer. (it's been a long time since I ordered)
I believe this http://www.resindepot.com/shopexd.asp?id=5494 is the most likely culprit, but you might just want to contact them to be sure. They have posted here before and been very helpful.

The guy from Resin Depot chimes in on page 3 of http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=67501&perpage=25&pagenumber=1 this thread with lots of info.

Here is one quote indicating his preference for RO plus DI as well as using a mixed bed over seperate resins.


He goes into more detail on the benefits of mixed bed over seperate later in the thread.

Dan


Hmm, so DI systems only don't remove any pesticides? thats not good!

So in reality, you gotta know exactly whats in your water before you decide to use a DI system, Otherwise your inviting disaster. Hmm,

A couple years ago I was living on some property with a well and Im sure that aside from high levels of phosphate, potassium I had several pestacides in the well water. I ended up using 2 pre's 2 carbons, 2 DI's and replaced one of each every month and the membrane yearly. Each of the filters I replaced each month were totally burned out. and that was just for a 125 reef and 120 anemone tank.

Where I live now has a water treatment plant across the street from my subdivision I can smell high levels of chlorine in the water. I still replace one each of the filters a month, The prefilter is usually burnt orange. The house is about 18 years old and the piping im sure isn't up to code.

So with this information, I don't see how I could go to a DI only system, but thanks for the link, I keep all my old DI filters and will order that DI resin in bulk that alone will save me some cash.
 
Mary,
How many gallons of water are you getting(at pre water of 375) prior to needing to recharge your resins?
Thanks,
Steve
 
Hi Steve, I got about 25 gallons before I needed to recharge the Anion cartridge. The Cation cartridge is about half depleted at this point.
I'm having a issue with the recharge. I posted another thread but no one has replied yet. I recharged the Anion cartridge per instructions...drizzling 5 quarts of a Lye/water mixture over a 24 hour period. The cartridge went back to it's blue color. I them did the final instructed step of putting the cartridge back in the unit and running 12 gallons of water through it. At that point the whole cartridge changed color again. I'm getting a TDS reading of 006ppm. I would appreciate any thoughts that anyone has on this. I will call Kent on Monday.
 
Mary,
Thanks for the numbers that at least gives me a starting point to know how much water to get out of a DI. My source TDSis about half yours, so I would get a bit more, but even still........That would be a lot of work/time for 1000g system. I now know I would have to have a monstrosity of a DI system to work for me
!!!
Steve
 
First, I have read all of the posts in this thread.
I do agree that RO systems waste water. I am not a big fan wasting water either. Much of the discussion about RO vs DI has to do with how much water you need, what your source water is like, and how often someone is willing to perform the recharges (or exchanges) on a DI.
Back a couple of years ago, I was doing tons of research for my propagation facility. Anthony was someone I pestered frequently for info/advice. (I still pester him, just not frequently anymore :P) While investigating DI units, I had the opportunity to email back and forth several times with Aquatechnics. I wrote to them in English and they wrote back to me in German- which I translated using LEO (online translator). I had to go word by word. I didn't know of a 'plug in a whole page' translator.
http://www.leo.org/leo_home_en.html

I was able to find three US sources for Aquatechinics deionizers. One was Dr.s Foster and Smith.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...0000&R=12993&ref=3167&subref=AC&N=2004+113073
I ended up purchasing the kati ani unit from them. Apparently, they are not handling the Aquatechnic line anymore. (???) The page is still up on their website. Probably for the same reason Anthony suggested to me that it wouldn't be worth it for me to buy the unit direct from Aquatechnic due to import taxes/customs duties plus negotiating warranty service is a nightmare. Aquatechnics has good warranty service, it is the going back and forth through customs that is the nightmare. If no other option was available at the time, I guess I would have bought it direct.

The second US source was Aquadirect, but they did not have the size I was looking for, but did sell the german kati-ani series 1 (1,100 gallons), kati-ani series 2 (2,300 gallons) and an ani (no kati listed) series 5. I have the kati ani series 10.
http://www.aqualink.com/direct/purify/deionize.html
The third US source was someone Anthony had mentioned in one of our personal communications, so I am not comfortable with giving their names, nor do I know if they are comfortable with having their names being mentioned.
The Aquadirect link is from my favorites and is probably three years old by now. I don't know if they still sell them, but the page is still up online.

As stated, I am not a big fan of wasting water either, but sometimes you gotta do watcha gotta do. My source water runs about 680 - 780 ppm TDS. It is full of iron (++), calcium (++), and magnesium (++) - all of which deplete DI resins faster than something like sodium (+). The Aquatechnics seies 10 is advertised to process 9,800 gallons between recharges. The system is two acrylic towers about 31" tall and about 27" full of resins. I got less than 350 gallons before the kati resin showed full color change and was exhausted. In a propagation facility expected to use 1,000 - 1,300 gallons each week, I would have been recharging the DI near daily. I felt (and still feel) that RO in front of the DI was a necessary evil (for me). Even after putting in the RO system, I lost 4 membranes due to the extreme amount of iron in the water. In addition to the RODI, I have had to install an aspiration/oxidizing iron removal system because a household type water softener was not adequate. The water coming out of the RO is around 8 - 9 ppm TDS and then goes to the DI. Even with all of that, I only get about 4,800 gallons or about 1/2 of the advertised amount. In this case, a DI alone was simply not a viable alternative. I knew my source water was crappy, but was convinced that a DI of that size and quality would produce much more quality water than 350 gallons.
In comparison, a series 1 (advertised for 1,100 gallons) would give me roughly 40 gallons. If you have really crappy source water like mine, be prepared to recharge those DI resins frequently.
Speaking of rechrging, muriatic acid can usually be found at any hardware store/ home improvement store/ pool supply house for about $3 per gallon. It takes about 1 1/2 gallons to recharge my series 10.
Sodium hydroxide can be found in the link below or drain cleaners (diluted). It takes 800 grams of sodium hydroxide to recharge my series 10.
http://www.chemistrystore.com/Sodium_Hydroxide.htm
Not trying to make any points of discussion, just wanted to share my experience (and the links).
 
I recently had a membrane on my 5 stage RO go out. Could I not then buy an anion and cation resin and place them in the RO housing/DI unit? Would it be more feasable than replacing an RO membrane? I love the idea of recharging resin and 0 waste water. Has anyone built a seperate column out of pvc to hold the resins for extra water purification?

http://www.spectrapure.com/St_replac_p5.htm#semi-anion

What would be the best resins to get from this site, any other places to buy resin cheap???
Also in reguards to Red Devil Lye and Muratic acid what is the best ratio mixture?


Thank you,


Brad
 
I had used a kati/ani 2 made by Aquatechnics since 1988 until July of 2005. While several years ago my kati tower stopped changing colors, I still made satifactory water. I gauged when to regenerate by measuring the height of the ani tower which expanded as it exhausted. Upon regeneration, the resin height would drop 3.5". I began to have to regenerate after a few hundred gallons and while the regeneration process was simple, I felt it was time to replace. Contacting Aquatechnics via email got a speedy German reply which a friends aupair translated. They did not have a current USA supplier. Dissapointed by this and not aware of Resin depot, I reluctantly sought and then bought an RO/DI unit that I like but, cheap Chip hates to waste water too. I have collected all waste water and currently water my large patio plants. They look GREAT however this will cease when the weather turns and resume again in the spring.
Having said this, I have now thought to continue collecting the waste water and allowing it to flow via gravity thru the old but trusty DI unit thus not wasting any water. The waste water has been thru 1 sedimnt filter and 2 carbon block filters.
I noticed however that my tap water is 250 TDS, my collected RO/DI water is 002-003 but my waste water reads 350 TDS.
What's up with that? What would be wrong with collecting the waste water and allowing it to flow via gravity thru the Kati/Ani and then collect that for use in my reef also?

Anthony & Steven, it appears I will be introducing you during your sessions at Macna17. Want to send me any info as an intro?
 
flowerseller said:
I noticed however that my tap water is 250 TDS, my collected RO/DI water is 002-003 but my waste water reads 350 TDS.
What's up with that?
That is normal for a RO unit. They work by separating impurities in the water and then concentrating them into the waste water.
 
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