Diary of a failed breeder

[WDLV]

I have been making an effort for a couple years now to breed clownfish (not so much the common types) and have failed for a number of reasons some of which I am aware of others of which may be eluding me.
One of the problems I've been faced with was that the setups I have used have simply not worked (some filtration issues, some size issues.) Another reason is likely to be that I have moved fish around too frequently and still another is the types of food I have a tendancy to fall back on (flake and pellet.)
I was a reefer before I started migrating away from that and moving toward trying to breed.

In Feb '08 I broke down my system and have tried a number of different scenarios which have not worked for one reason or another.
I tried a rack of 30 and 40 breeder tanks. I think it had a chance but I didn't allow it because I wanted to add more pairs.

I tried a custom made rack system but filtration was poor and there were too many fish in the system. One brook outbreak and that was it.

So then I went to individual 10 gallons intependently filtered but that became too much to manage.

I also had a few 100 gallon sumps hooked in tandem. This worked relatively well but offered limited visibility of the pairs. Also, they were really not utilizing more than half of the space allotted to them... So, it became a waste of water and space.

So, now I've been down sizing and hope that I've found a winning scenario. I think it will suit my style best and will promote the best combination of size, filtration and environment.
I'm going with 45 gallon cubes (24x24x19) by Marineland. I'm still not sure yet, but I think some will stand independantly and others will share a common sump.

I plan to keep my thielleis.

And my leucs who hate to be looked at much less photographed.

I'm debating whether to keep several other pairs including A. barberi, A. melanopus and these A. chrysopterus.

I suppose the positive of all of this is that I have learned a lot about what does and does not work and how to quarrantine and treat fish with pretty good results.

 

[celamb89]

Nice Job! And Good Luck! Hope you get some babys soon!

 

[rkelman]

Why not start small and simple and go from there. I think you are trying to do way to much to fast. IMHO.

 

[dirtStar]

Maybe try having someone help out with management of the tanks.
With daily and weekly regiments and habits.

 

[flying_dutchman]

Personally I would do this setup, drill the 10g plumb them together and build a big ATS (algae turf scrubber)

Good luck!

Why not start small and simple and go from there. I think you are trying to do way to much to fast. IMHO.

+1 breeding is all about patience.

 

[reefstew]

Rember Thomas Edison knew off 10,000 ways a light bulb would not work untill he found what would work. About 4 years ago I was breeding wild seahorses & they were hatching about 1000 babies every 17 days. I tryed a lot of different things but could not get the fry to live for more than 4 months. Had success breeding 4 kinds of clown fish & now breeding erectus seahorses to adults. My systems can be a lot better but they work. Hang in their.

 

[cabrego]

If you are serious about breeding, you should try raising some fry! If you haven't already that is. If you don't know a single pair will keep you as busy as you would like to be!

 

[WDLV]

Nice Job! And Good Luck! Hope you get some babys soon!

That would be great!!!

Why not start small and simple and go from there. I think you are trying to do way to much to fast. IMHO.

I think that I was but not any more. I have down sized from having about 12 pairs to haveing only 5 and I'm honing that down further to about 3-4 so I can focus on my favorites.

Maybe try having someone help out with management of the tanks.
With daily and weekly regiments and habits.

I shouldn't need that now. I probably didn't make clear that I only have two tanks still sitting on that rack and they're both quarrantining fish.

Personally I would do this setup, drill the 10g plumb them together and build a big ATS (algae turf scrubber)

Good luck!

+1 breeding is all about patience.

I was planning to do that setup if I get babies. It would be a good growout system. I'm getting there on the patience for lack of choice.

Rember Thomas Edison knew off 10,000 ways a light bulb would not work untill he found what would work. About 4 years ago I was breeding wild seahorses & they were hatching about 1000 babies every 17 days. I tryed a lot of different things but could not get the fry to live for more than 4 months. Had success breeding 4 kinds of clown fish & now breeding erectus seahorses to adults. My systems can be a lot better but they work. Hang in their.

That's the exact quote that kept popping through my head as I was digging up the pictures for this thread. :lol:

If you are serious about breeding, you should try raising some fry! If you haven't already that is. If you don't know a single pair will keep you as busy as you would like to be!

I get that. I'm reducing my brood stock for that reason. I was trying to increase the number of pairs before so that I might have success with one of them. Now I'm trying to narrow it down to my favorites and provide a more quality environment for them. The problem is that there are only two pairs that I know I really love and I have that compulsive nature to buy clowns I don't have and sell off the ones I don't fall in love with.
My thielleis are a love affair and they have a real shot I think. They are a great pair. My leucs are a love affair as well, but they're the nastiest, skittish pair I could ever hope for. I hear this is consistant with others of their "species."

 

[ctenophors rule]

I have been making an effort for a couple years now to breed clownfish (not so much the common types) and have failed for a number of reasons some of which I am aware of others of which may be eluding me.
One of the problems I've been faced with was that the setups I have used have simply not worked (some filtration issues, some size issues.) Another reason is likely to be that I have moved fish around too frequently and still another is the types of food I have a tendancy to fall back on (flake and pellet.)
I was a reefer before I started migrating away from that and moving toward trying to breed.

In Feb '08 I broke down my system and have tried a number of different scenarios which have not worked for one reason or another.
I tried a rack of 30 and 40 breeder tanks. I think it had a chance but I didn't allow it because I wanted to add more pairs.

I tried a custom made rack system but filtration was poor and there were too many fish in the system. One brook outbreak and that was it.

So then I went to individual 10 gallons intependently filtered but that became too much to manage.

I also had a few 100 gallon sumps hooked in tandem. This worked relatively well but offered limited visibility of the pairs. Also, they were really not utilizing more than half of the space allotted to them... So, it became a waste of water and space.

So, now I've been down sizing and hope that I've found a winning scenario. I think it will suit my style best and will promote the best combination of size, filtration and environment.
I'm going with 45 gallon cubes (24x24x19) by Marineland. I'm still not sure yet, but I think some will stand independantly and others will share a common sump.

I plan to keep my thielleis.

And my leucs who hate to be looked at much less photographed.

I'm debating whether to keep several other pairs including A. barberi, A. melanopus and these A. chrysopterus.

I suppose the positive of all of this is that I have learned a lot about what does and does not work and how to quarrantine and treat fish with pretty good results.

lol your P A club not doing to well i guess!

seriously though, thats a complicated system for s first timer. I went through the same thing your doing, but in a different way. I started with a large system (relative to my current breeding set up) that consisted of 5 ten 2 55 gallon rubbermaid containors and a 36 gallon tall. after many revisoins i am now at a single ten gallon. for the time being, couldn't be happier!

 

[NINEONEONE]

Do you have any regrets if any and if you can start over how would you or would you ???

 

[WDLV]

lol your P A club not doing to well i guess!

seriously though, thats a complicated system for s first timer. I went through the same thing your doing, but in a different way. I started with a large system (relative to my current breeding set up) that consisted of 5 ten 2 55 gallon rubbermaid containors and a 36 gallon tall. after many revisoins i am now at a single ten gallon. for the time being, couldn't be happier!

I didn't get the first remark about PA club. ....:hmm3:
Do you mean that you are only running one ten gallon tank in the whole house, that you are keeping your brood pair in a 10 gallon or that you are raising your fry in a 10 gallon?

Do you have any regrets if any and if you can start over how would you or would you ???

I have plenty of regrets. Some I have learned from and others I will probably make again.

Regret #1 - Taking down my 210 gallon reef.
Regret #2 - Putting all my eggs in one basket so to speak.
Regret #3 - Not quarrantining fish
Regret #4 - Buying large numbers of rare fish just because they were there only to turn around and sell them.


1. I can always build another reef and if all goes as planned I will be doing so once I move.
2. I have learned that it is best to keep a smaller number of pairs in a given system.
3. I have learned a great deal about quarrantine after making a number of mistakes. I have also learned a little about treatment and disease ID.
4. I still do this and probably always will but to a lesser extent. In the last couple months, I have passed on several latz and leucs but I still picked up a couple Blue Stripes and some nice looking melanopus.... just because they were there.

The small mistakes I may repeat but the larger ones have made a huge impact on how I run my systems.
The last few months have been interesting as I re-learn how to run small reefs. I have not had a reef smaller than 125 gallons in about six years.

The reef idea is what I came back to because this is what I find I like the best, works the best in terms of fish comfort and I feel is easiest to maintain in the long run. The most difficult aspect I'm running across right now are pests, which I am re-discovering is a whole different ballgame from fighting them in a larger system ie: aptasia cannot be dealt with using a copperband butterfly. Algae cannot be dealt with using tangs in a smaller system like this. I'm getting over my first bout with bryopsis after 14 years of reefing. Now that that is going away, I'm dealing with massive numbers of aptasia.:mad2:
It's hard to resist the urge to shut the system down, bleach it and start over but I think this is a good battle to face because I have already learned one method of killing bryopsis and I am relearning the power of kalk paste and persistence.

 

[NINEONEONE]

WDLV,
Just want to say thanks for this info !!!

 

[WDLV]

No problem. I hope it helps you or someone else.

 

[topart]

How do you get rid of bryopsis? I've tried raising the mg and that works pretty well.

 

[WDLV]

Tech-M Mg suppliment @ 1600-1800.

 

[nauticac4]

I think the diary needs more regular updates!!! When this thread popped up I got really into it and them boom it stopped

I know what your going through it seems like you cranking down the road you think you want to be on just to find out there was a betterway a few miles back.

 

[WDLV]

Well, where I stand I have 11 BTAs in total. Two red one green and nine pink tip. I'm about to hook a 40 breeder into the system to temporarily house my melanopus pair 'till I get the wall ready for moving the entire system. That will go one tank at a time. The one that is drilled will be the first to go over. I will either bleach it out or add a butterfly to erradicate the aptasia. Next, anemones and one of the clown pairs will go in that tank. Then I plan to drill and move the other two over. I have the melanopus and barberi pairs for sale. That will leave me with three pairs.

I have some sort of macro algae taking over the thiellei tank. It's hollow and so far is growing in short strands. At first I thought it was bryopsis or hair algae but it's not. It must have come from the fresh piece of LR in that tank. I was planning on seeding my system with that rock and the rock I got from my friend when I bought her BTAs. It seems to be working. I'm all for having macro in the tanks. I'm not all about the aptasia.

I'll be headed down to NC next month and plan to pick up some more snails and maybe some urchins and whatever else I find out there.

 

[WDLV]

Got some supplies for making fish food tonight.

Salmon roe
norway mackerel (whole)
sea squirt
"bai top shell" (some kind of whelk)
squid (whole)
Mussels
cyclopeeze
dried seaweed

and I almost bought sea cucumber but wasn't sure on the preparation on that one.

My basic game plan is to use:
the meat and the liver of the mackerel (skin doesn't blend well at all)
Everything but the pen and beak of the squid
everything but the shell of the mussels
the meat of the whelk
the whole salmon roe
The whole sea squirt except the attachment roots
the whole seaweed

All will be rinsed thoroughly before blending then the cyclopeeze will be added and everything will be frozen in ziplock freezer bags.

 

[WDLV]

Preparing this actually made me a little hungry.

 

[LisaD]

It's clear you are dedicated, knowledgeable, committed and have learned a lot. I feel a little funny making a suggestion, as I am not a breeder, except for raising some seahorse and pipefish fry.

I know you love the rare clowns. But what about finding a pair or two of "easy" to breed clowns, maybe even buy a proven pair. It might enhance your chances of success, you could make fry raising "mistakes" on species that aren't your favorites, and help you develop your breeding and rearing practices.

In the meantime, enjoy the favorites, and if they breed, they breed. But focus your energy on a few "starters" in order to develop your expertise. Just a suggestion.