t4zalews
65g Ritteri Tank
Why is the temperature rising in your tank? Something doesnt sound right. If anything, your temperature should be dropping due to the lack of heat from the lights.
dino experiment
- Thread starter t4zalews
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Why is the temperature rising in your tank? Something doesnt sound right. If anything, your temperature should be dropping due to the lack of heat from the lights.
Peter T
Gallantly Forward
I figured that would be the case as well, as I am not using a heater and as you mentioned no halides. I assume it is from the lack of evaporation when I keep the tank covered. I top off over a gallon a day from evaporation and I assume when I covered the thank the tank's water does not evaporate as fast.
edit: But to put it in perspective, my tank's temperature is usually around 76 in the morning and 79 by the end of the day. During the 3 day black out it rose to 81 degrees. Nothing too bad. But with a 10 day blackout, the possibility for temp to rise even higher is a real possibility.
Peter T
Gallantly Forward
Yeah I would do this, covering my tank for the blackout makes it hard to run a fan
Guess I can always drop ice bags in my sump if I need to cool down the tank some.
Homeytwist
New member
When I blacked out my tank I sealed it up from the tank up to the hanging light fixture, and used the fan in the light fixture to force fresh air into the cavity above the open tank which kept evaporatin rates going. I also had the chiller running as usual so temps were a non-issue for me.
Don't forget to black out any transparent plumbing AND the sump area too!
Don't forget to black out any transparent plumbing AND the sump area too!
I used an Algae Turf Scrubber for about 9 months on my reef tank. It worked great for about six months and then could not keep up with system. I added more flow and more light based on "recommendations".
When the Dino's settled in I used mixed carbon source with doser for about 3 months and issue was solved. It hung around and at 3 month mark it just vanished. I not just run GFO and wait for it to return. It's been about 3-4 months since it has been gone.
When the Dino's settled in I used mixed carbon source with doser for about 3 months and issue was solved. It hung around and at 3 month mark it just vanished. I not just run GFO and wait for it to return. It's been about 3-4 months since it has been gone.
sahin
Ultimate Reefer
Many thanks for doing this work for us Pants. The fact that there are different species of Dinos explains the reason why the typical pH to 8.4 and lights out etc etc doesnt work for everyone.
Sme of these species must be more resilient than others.
Is there anything that can be done at all to target these things without harming corals?
Sme of these species must be more resilient than others.
Is there anything that can be done at all to target these things without harming corals?
Pants
Member
The biggest problem with targeting these specifically is that your photosynthetic corals and anemones are a symbiotic relationship between an cnidarian animal (or in the case of giant clams a mollusk) and a dinoflagellate that lives inside the animals cells. Coral reefs would not exist without dinoflagellates. These symbiotic dinoflagellates are also found in the water column and on the rock and glass surfaces. Finding something that kills the harmful dinoflagellate but not the beneficial dinoflagellates would be difficult.
I can say that rapid changes in salinity will usually cause the cells to break open and die in very short order, so instituting freshwater dips of everything wet that goes in your tank could help prevent introduction of new dinoflagellates (pests and beneficials).
With the hydrogen peroxide treatment you are taking advantage of the extra protection that being inside the animal cell provides to the endosymbiont. The animal cell can break down the hydrogen peroxide and protect the symbionts— but you are still nuking your community of beneficial dinoflagellates (and other algae) that are not inside the corals.
Any other treatments will likely have to take advantage of this same protection conferred by the animal cells.
You also need to address the underlying cause of the blooms. It is unlikely you will ever kill 100% of the harmful dinoflagellates, so if you don't address the excess nutrients in your system then they are bound to come back given time.
If your dinoflagellate community is destroyed and there are still nutrients around something will fill that niche: recovering dinos, cyano, diatoms...
I can say that rapid changes in salinity will usually cause the cells to break open and die in very short order, so instituting freshwater dips of everything wet that goes in your tank could help prevent introduction of new dinoflagellates (pests and beneficials).
With the hydrogen peroxide treatment you are taking advantage of the extra protection that being inside the animal cell provides to the endosymbiont. The animal cell can break down the hydrogen peroxide and protect the symbionts— but you are still nuking your community of beneficial dinoflagellates (and other algae) that are not inside the corals.
Any other treatments will likely have to take advantage of this same protection conferred by the animal cells.
You also need to address the underlying cause of the blooms. It is unlikely you will ever kill 100% of the harmful dinoflagellates, so if you don't address the excess nutrients in your system then they are bound to come back given time.
If your dinoflagellate community is destroyed and there are still nutrients around something will fill that niche: recovering dinos, cyano, diatoms...
Homeytwist
New member
Pants, I was under the impression that the dinos would grow well even in the absence of the nutrients usually responsible for nuisance algae, hence why they are so difficult to deal with (the usual nutrient control methods don't work). Is this the case or are they in fact dependant on the same nutrients as the usual nuiscance algae competitors; nitrate, phosphate, silicates etc. Is there a particular food source that the dino relies on or does it really depend on the particular species?
Somehow I doubt it's that simple, but I had to ask out of curiosity.
Somehow I doubt it's that simple, but I had to ask out of curiosity.
Every organism requires carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus. Photosynthetic organisms can fix carbon dioxide from the air, so that leaves nitrogen and phosphorus as the usual control points for dinoflagellates. That said, dinoflagellates can be hard to control because we can't remove all the nutrients from the system... 
Some dinoflagellates might require fair amounts of other elements, but that'll depend on the species.
Some dinoflagellates might require fair amounts of other elements, but that'll depend on the species.
brandon429
Well-known member
I was just thinking that.
It must be an unbelievable tightrope walk for those who strive to maintain these stripped nutrient profiles considering the bioload we keep in our tanks and the need for corals to have access to nutrients at all times as a required supplement to what photosynthetic machinery provides.
Across all nano reefs and pico reefs, which concentrate and amplify peroxide dosing details compared to larger tanks, we've seen no loss of beneficial dinoflagellates/benthic life impact the system negatively as is commonly stated.we'll make a thread with 500 before and after pics yet its still suspect of causing unseen harm. filter beds hold up unimpeded, per ammonia test kits-same can't be said of all reef treatments.
When used carefully and with a method we know works, the results are all positive.
We alter so many otherwise natural populations in our tanks with variances in care, why should peroxide be set aside.
Why is making ones tank an alcoholic to sustain unnatural microbe populations any less abnormal than peroxide being used to counter control them?
I find that there are many assumptions about what goes on behind the scenes with controlled peroxide use while we continue to compile post after post after post with pics showing no such loss of beneficial life and healthy, glowing corals.
That being said Pants i'm still reeeaaallly hoping you will make that video of a single cell lysing in motion it will be my fav clip 2012
It must be an unbelievable tightrope walk for those who strive to maintain these stripped nutrient profiles considering the bioload we keep in our tanks and the need for corals to have access to nutrients at all times as a required supplement to what photosynthetic machinery provides.
Across all nano reefs and pico reefs, which concentrate and amplify peroxide dosing details compared to larger tanks, we've seen no loss of beneficial dinoflagellates/benthic life impact the system negatively as is commonly stated.we'll make a thread with 500 before and after pics yet its still suspect of causing unseen harm. filter beds hold up unimpeded, per ammonia test kits-same can't be said of all reef treatments.
When used carefully and with a method we know works, the results are all positive.
We alter so many otherwise natural populations in our tanks with variances in care, why should peroxide be set aside.
Why is making ones tank an alcoholic to sustain unnatural microbe populations any less abnormal than peroxide being used to counter control them?
I find that there are many assumptions about what goes on behind the scenes with controlled peroxide use while we continue to compile post after post after post with pics showing no such loss of beneficial life and healthy, glowing corals.
That being said Pants i'm still reeeaaallly hoping you will make that video of a single cell lysing in motion it will be my fav clip 2012
Some people don't mind experimenting with their tanks. If so, trying hydrogen peroxide might be reasonable. There are a lot of dead corals from vodka and vinegar dosing experiments, and personally I'd rather learn from someone else's dead corals than my own. I can't in good conscience recommend hydrogen peroxide given the lack of information on how safe it is.
brandon429
Well-known member
What about the before and after pics though
Some of our threads are a year or more older now
Its definitely not formally reviewed though I don't blame anyone for taking a conservative stance with their tanks
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082359&page=8
Jrp if you would have joined our thread I think we could have earned different results
Some of our threads are a year or more older now
Its definitely not formally reviewed though I don't blame anyone for taking a conservative stance with their tanks
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082359&page=8
Jrp if you would have joined our thread I think we could have earned different results
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sahin
Ultimate Reefer
I tried peroxide for my dino's. It didn't work in the slightest bit for me.
I too tried it and it didnt work for me. I wish it had...I even overdosed but whilst it didnt kill the Dinos, it didnt harm my corals in any way.
At the levels most people use in their reefs, I'd say its safe. I read numerous threads before using it. I had a tank full of SPS that I didnt want to lose.
If one told mainstream reefkeepers to dose vodka in thier reefs 20 years ago you'd been called crazy or something.
Brandon, I will take a look at the thread later, but from glancing at the thread some time back, I thought this method was for hair algae etc.
I'd love for peroxide to work against Dinos.
brandon429
Well-known member
We haven't found a reef pest a direct treatment wouldn't work on
The full tank dosings may or may not work but the spot treatments will
These are often really hard to do in a large tank compared to a nano...
The full tank dosings may or may not work but the spot treatments will
These are often really hard to do in a large tank compared to a nano...
Peter T
Gallantly Forward
I would like to try the peroxide method for my dinos, but I am unsure of the effect it would have on my stomatopod. If this 10 day blackout fails, I may end up putting my stomatopod in a different tank and doing a broadcast treatment of peroxide along with another blackout and elevated pH.
brandon429
Well-known member
I hope you can collect before and after pics, that will be a fun challenge to see if we can beat this plague
i'm curious to see how bad your infestation is
i'm curious to see how bad your infestation is
Peter T
Gallantly Forward
The first time it was so bad it backed up my overflow boxes and killed off all my SPS. I thought I beat it the first time with a 3 day blackout and elevated pH; it started coming back from the sand after a water change. I am seriously debating on going bare bottom because of this.
However, I'm already going on my 3rd day blackout of the 10 day blackout plus elevated pH. All the dinos appear to be gone already but that is how it looked last time when I thought I beat it so I will wait the full 10 days.
I didn't take any pictures because I was so embarrassed. If this fails and I try out peroxide dosing in conjunction with elevated pH and blackout, I will be sure to take before pictures.
