Dinoflagellates.

[bheron]

I also have that hardened substrate but only in my 6 gallon tank (running since 2007, never had a dino outbreak). I've read that the excretions (low pH) of substrate living organisms can dissolve substrate consisting of calcium and magnesium. After that the dissolved calcium and magnesium begin to grow as crystals in the substrate that leads to the hardened substrate we have. Do the shops in the US/Canada sell so called "critterpacks"(containing substrate living creatures) to prevent that hardening?

Sincerely, Dennis

Yep. Any sandbed without critters moving it around could harden IMO. Anyway I get all of mine from Indo Pacific Sea Farms in Hawaii. To me its the best place to get the right specimens for your tank: IPSF.com just orderded from them last week to replace dieoff from my own Dino outbreak.

 

[bheron]

@Dfee and garygonzales: ...My tank is completely overrun with cyano atm...
ivy

Hi Ivy, I'm experiencing the same thing! I seemed to have beaten back the Dinos to almost nothing right now, then all of the sudden Cyano outbreak. Maybe its a result of the overfeeding I did from the "dirty" method?

Anyway, don't want to go too far off topic here but curious what you think about your Cyano and what you're doing.

EDIT: I turned my skimmer back on for the first time in MONTHS. dare I do a water change? or run GMO? I'm afraid dinos will come back. Those are what I think triggered my Dino outbreak originally to battle an algae problem.

 

[cal_stir]

Hi Ivy, I'm experiencing the same thing! I seemed to have beaten back the Dinos to almost nothing right now, then all of the sudden Cyano outbreak. Maybe its a result of the overfeeding I did from the "dirty" method?

Anyway, don't want to go too far off topic here but curious what you think about your Cyano and what you're doing.

EDIT: I turned my skimmer back on for the first time in MONTHS. dare I do a water change? or run GMO? I'm afraid dinos will come back. Those are what I think triggered my Dino outbreak originally to battle an algae problem.

I to did the dirty method, I managed the cyano with a turkey baster until I was confident the dinos were gone, then I did a chemiclean treatment to get rid of the cyano and it has never returned. I keep my po4 at .02 to .06 and nitrate at 5 ppm.

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

Hi Ivy, I'm experiencing the same thing! I seemed to have beaten back the Dinos to almost nothing right now, then all of the sudden Cyano outbreak. Maybe its a result of the overfeeding I did from the "dirty" method?

Anyway, don't want to go too far off topic here but curious what you think about your Cyano and what you're doing.

In my tank I see a very predictable response:

-0 nitrates 0 phosphates= really happy dinos, nothing else at all grows
-low nitrates no phosphates=tiny cyano (it's cheating somehow) and dinos
-low nitrates low phosphates=dinos are dying back noticably, cyano bloom continues but starting to see diatoms and green slime on the glass. Chaeto starts growing again.
-nitrates over 1, phosphate .03=only green algae and diatoms on glass, dinos not visible in tank altho persist under microscope samples off filter

I'm not doing anything about the cyano, for me it's a good sign, that I need to keep increasing my N/P. Well, I do siphon it out.

I'd wait on the water change if I were you! Cyano is ugly but really it's a good sign. You want the green algae to be firmly enough established that they're getting all the nutrients in the tank.


Oh and I totally agree about the benefits of sandbed microfauna. Nobody ships to Canada. If you hear of a source pm me and I'll make them rich.

ivy
PS here's a picture. Looks bad eh? The white arrow is pointing to GREEN stuff on the glass, which only shows up when nutrients go up enough for the cyano bloom. That coral's on the sandbed because I thought it was a Duncan. I now think it may be an elegance..

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

i think it's pretty important, at least morally, to figure out how tanks are getting infected so that we know if we can share/sell our livestock...

my theory is that not every tank has them because we see a lot of ULNS tanks out there that has never had them...zeo tanks come into mind..

But do those beautiful ULNS tanks have a "subclinical" number of dinos?

I'll ask my LFS for a sand sample next time I'm up there. They have super clean looking tanks.

hth
ivy

 

[robertifly]

dcforestr1, I read back in this thread where Ivy stated some strains of dino requires 8 days blackout. I did the full 8 days covered up tight, no feeding and ran skimmer wet which after 3rd day the skimming dropped off drastically. I fed fish very well for over a week before I blackout tank they all were fine after 8 days without feeding. Also have three green bubble 3 gbt anemones that made it just fine, all I lost was dino. I lost no corals, just dinosaur for 9 days now.

 

[Kazalla]

dcforestr1, I read back in this thread where Ivy stated some strains of dino requires 8 days blackout. I did the full 8 days covered up tight, no feeding and ran skimmer wet which after 3rd day the skimming dropped off drastically. I fed fish very well for over a week before I blackout tank they all were fine after 8 days without feeding. Also have three green bubble 3 gbt anemones that made it just fine, all I lost was dino. I lost no corals, just dinosaur for 9 days now.

I lost a RBTA, a condy anemone and a sarcophyton soft coral after 3 and a half days lights out. Though I'm not sure it was the lights out itself or low oxygen levels because my tank is cube shaped (bad volume to water surface ratio)... It has three powerheads (2x900litres/hour and one 1600litres/hour) and 13 gallons volume but the powerheads have nylon socks around them (for anemone safety) so efficiency is reduced.

I also think that cyanobacterias aren't bad. They just fill up the nearly empty microfauna of a tank after dinos are defeated but they are definitely not destructive as them. They are even cultured for feeding purposes e.g. spirulina powder.

Sincerely, Dennis

 

[karimwassef]

Cyano is toxic, I think.

 

[Kazalla]

I didn't know there is a phyotplankton type consisting of red dinoflagellates: Rhodomonas baltica. But breeding is difficult from what I've read (one of the toughest in phytoplankton breeding), also it serves only for feeding purposes...

Sincerely, Dennis

EDIT: @karimwassef there are too many variant cyanobacteria types to make a general statement about their toxicity.

 

[robertifly]

Pods of all types eat dinos, what do you guys feed in DT and refugium for pods to keep a population thriving and or other things to encourage population? Thanks

 

[karimwassef]

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jmb/2012/259571/

Section 2.6

 

[Kazalla]

@karimwassef: chapeau!

Dinocalypse lasts for six days now, today they began to grow on the live rocks, no signs of any green algae though I'm feeding 3 times than normal. Guys the tank looks horrible I could cry, it really hurts me to see it like that... :sad1:

Sincerely, Dennis

 

[Billybatz9]

Anyone have sps and battling dinoflagellates?

 

[cal_stir]

Pods of all types eat dinos, what do you guys feed in DT and refugium for pods to keep a population thriving and or other things to encourage population? Thanks

Copepods like phytoplankton, amphipods eat everything, I feed my culture flake food.

 

[DNA]

Anyone have sps and battling dinoflagellates?

Yes. It's a rollercoster and I don't recommend it.
SPS will suffer with no growth for a very long time, then grow some then die back, often to 1% of the original size.

A single small frag is alright for measuring the conditions for SPS.

 

[Billybatz9]

When I had dinos I could take and put it in another tank . The other tank had no dinos and it would disapeare. I still believe it is an imbalance and lack of diversity. I am dino free in my tank for about 11 months. I do water changes once a month. But I do not run gfo or carbon anymore. I also still feed heavy.

Do you skim wet? Do you run anything? Any algae from feeding heavy? Explain how you feed heavy, and do you dose phytoplankton?

 

[Billybatz9]

Yes. It's a rollercoster and I don't recommend it.
SPS will suffer with no growth for a very long time, then grow some then die back, often to 1% of the original size.

A single small frag is alright for measuring the conditions for SPS.

Have you been dino free? Or still battling?

Have you done any blackouts with sps? How did they do? What about h202 doses?

 

[Budman422]

[quote name="Budman422" post=24100418]When I had dinos I could take and put it in another tank . The other tank had no dinos and it would disapeare. I still believe it is an imbalance and lack of diversity. I am dino free in my tank for about 11 months. I do water changes once a month. But I do not run gfo or carbon anymore. I also still feed heavy.[/QUOTE]<br />
<br />
Do you skim wet? Do you run anything? Any algae from feeding heavy? Explain how you feed heavy, and do you dose phytoplankton?


I have returned to normal skimming not wet. I have a 125 with only 7 fish with most of those being small. As far as feeding it looks like a snowstorm in the tank 1 to 2 times a day flake and frozen up to 5 cubes a day. I have very little algea in the display. And change about 25 gallons a month. I do run a 20 gallon fuge full of cheato and calurpa that I got from several different tanks. I think that helped with diversity. I also run kalkwasser through an ato for all top off. This was a 3 year + battle that I did not think I would win.

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

dcforestr1, I read back in this thread where Ivy stated some strains of dino requires 8 days blackout. I did the full 8 days covered up tight, no feeding and ran skimmer wet which after 3rd day the skimming dropped off drastically. I fed fish very well for over a week before I blackout tank they all were fine after 8 days without feeding. Also have three green bubble 3 gbt anemones that made it just fine, all I lost was dino. I lost no corals, just dinosaur for 9 days now.

And if I'd known you had anemones I'd have said Noooooooo don't do it! Lol.

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

I lost a RBTA, a condy anemone and a sarcophyton soft coral after 3 and a half days lights out. Though I'm not sure it was the lights out itself or low oxygen levels because my tank is cube shaped (bad volume to water surface ratio)... It has three powerheads (2x900litres/hour and one 1600litres/hour) and 13 gallons volume but the powerheads have nylon socks around them (for anemone safety) so efficiency is reduced.

If I recall correctly you were dosing phyto? Did you add pods? Your tank is small enough that a cup of live sand from someone might really kick start the ecology. What's your nitrate/phosphate like?

You know your cyanobacteria; will Calothrix spp stain alcohol red? User here had visual/behavioural dinoflagellates that turned out to be microscopically no such thing.

Spirulina's a common 'health' additive to drinks and other foods here. It tastes terrible.

ivy