Dinoflagellates.

[Quiet_Ivy]

Is also a mixed infection of different types of dinos in one reeftank possible? Under the microscope some dinos look different than the typical shape of an Ostreopsis (not egg-shaped more oval). Maybe a mix of different life stages (cysts or something like that).

Sincerely, Dennis

I think it's possible! I have Ostreopsis- that drunken whirling is distinctive- and something smaller and different-behaving that I think is in genus Prorocentrum. Seeing the whitish circle isn't really diagnostic, that's a structure in the chloroplasts. Of course I wouldn't bet money on my ability to id even to family; for the most part I'm good if I can determine whether it's a dino or a diatom.


Not a microbiologist, blah blah disclaimer, could be space aliens..
Ivy

 

[karimwassef]

Without a flagellum, is it dino?

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

Without a flagellum, is it dino?

Not biologically, BUT I have never managed to see the flagellum under a microscope. I don't see them in Pants' videos either. Can you see them? You must have good eyes.

Round diatoms have a sort of, ribby structure? They have a nice glassy outline and sort of float serenely. Dinos do loop de loops, spin like one foot got nailed to the floor, or spin on their axis and go rocketing around.
Ivy

 

[Cyberdude]

Does dino-x have any effect on copepods? Snails? Hermit crabs? Blood shrimp?

Nope. Not at all. If they eat the dinos it's a different story

 

[Kazalla]

To have a nice view on such filigree bodyparts of a dino like the flagellum, you need a microscope that is able to do dark field microscopy. Also a 400x magnification and an option to control the brightness of the microscope as well as killing the dino with distilled water (because they can move the flagellum so fast you can barely spot it) is usefull to see it. Not all dinos have a distinctive grown flagellum.

Sincerely Dennis

 

[Kazalla]

In this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl0I-LKTm-s
you can clearly see the flagellum of gymnodinium, it also shows that a high light intensity isn't very useful for viewing it.

Sincerely, Dennis

 

[karimwassef]

Cool

 

[DNA]

Here in Iceland they are called groves-algae because the all have them.

I always took the word dino for a short for dynamo because of the ability of motion.
The flagellates are more than one.
They are really thin and close to impossible to get all in focus on a conventional microscope.

The pictures below are worth a 1000 words.
The last one is labeled Ostreopsis Ovata.

 

[DNA]

Since we agree on that lack of plankton is common in dino infested tanks we need to establish if dinos decimated them or if decimated plankton brings on the dinos.
I think we can take it as a fact that dinos have the ability to at least keep plankton down.

We have yet to go full force on the plankton. It's in abundance in the ocean.
There are companies that skim the ocean for plankton on a large scale. Over here the sea is too cold for reef plankton, but in the US there must be several.
If I lived there I'd visit one with a huge bucket and ask for a dense mix from their scoop.

In a small tank, replacing all of the live rock could possibly turn the tide.

We do not know what plankton competes with dinos or if it's bacteria or virus or a combination of several things.
Natural seawater could be interesting to try out, but it would have to be reef compatible.

A healthy tank does not need a continuous supply of plankton and a I think the dozes could be too small.

 

[DNA]

We often find that our dino infested tanks have zero nitrates.
I've three times added live rock to see nitrates rise and seen improvement in SPS as a result.
On the last occasion nitrate levels only rose to the lowest detectable level on my Salifert test kit.
At the same time there was no change in dino densities so nitrates could be a factor in SPS health in tanks that have dinos.

I've also found out that Turbinaria and SPS like Acropora alternate in health and growth.
They dislike the condition that the other likes.
I've had at least three periods showing this and learned from others that Turbinaria is unaffected with palytoxin while there is mass death in Acropora.

For more than a year I had Cheatomorpha that I never harvested, then something changed and it's been growing well for a long time now.
There are few absolute values when you have dinos, just endless parameters that are hard to figure out.

 

[Kazalla]

Yesterday, I dipped the pinnigorgia sp. into distilled water, because it was the first coral that had dinos growing on its tips. Today there are dinos everywhere on that pinnigorgia sp. Maybe because the freshwater bath also killed dino competitive organisms on the coral skin . Now they are gone and the dinos have free space to spread. Maybe I should take a closer look into the bacterial fauna that lives on a coral infested with dinos and one that is not infested...

Sincerely, Dennis

 

[EvMiBo]

Nope. Not at all. If they eat the dinos it's a different story

Copepods eat dinoflagellates. One of the few things that consume them.

 

[karimwassef]

Has anyone use garf grunge?

 

[Dfee]

That looks perfect. How'd you come across that? I've never heard of it

 

[karimwassef]

Old school. No idea if they're still operating.

 

[Kazalla]

Copepods eat dinoflagellates. One of the few things that consume them.

And Nematodes eat that brown coloured excretions (mucus?) the dinos produce.

Sincerely, Dennis

 

[cal_stir]

Has anyone use garf grunge?

I used Garf Grunge, was disappointed, couldn't find any life in it, not even with the microscope.

 

[karimwassef]

that's disappointing. If a retailer can prove that their rocks/grunge will fight off dinos, that would be a game changer (for them too).

I imagine a video with a healthy tank and a sick tank. You take a dino infested rock and put it in the tank with the healthy microbiome. The next morning and for the rest of the week, the rock is clean and stays clean while the rest of the healthy tank is unaffected.

That would be good live rock.

Then the scientists step in and study the plankton in the healthy tank and isolate the dino killers. It's probably a team sport, but these smary guys figure it out.

Then they cultivate them and sell bottles of the stuff. Then we can close this thread.

 

[Kazalla]

The problem we also have is the density of cysts in the substrate/sand, in the ocean if the dinos transform into cysts, most of them will be taken away by sea currents into deeper ocean layers with much plankton that will feed on the dino cysts or they are lost because they sink into the deep sea, they will never see the sunlight again. Only a few survive. In our reeftanks if nothing eats them in the substrate, they only have to wait for suitable conditions. The mortality rate is low. I read somewhere in this thread the cyst form has a lifetime of about 100 years... This little fellows are true masters of surviving in harsh environments.

Sincerely, Dennis

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

There's a species of dinoflagellate (Oxyrrhis marina) that eats other dinos. If someone could just culture that we'd all be good. You could make a killing! I've seen ciliates apparently consuming dinos also.

I don't think eradicating dinos from an aquarium is ever going to be possible. Even if you somehow killed every living dino and cyst, the odds of reintroducing them have to be close to 100%. Do coral dips even kill dinos/cysts to begin with? I dipped all my corals with CoralRX and still got them. Given that they're so ubiquitous in nature, I think we have to go with developing a robust enough ecosystem that they're held in check.

re microscopy: ro water seemed to lyse the cells instantly, I'll try buffering it. I'm sure I'm not looking at diatoms, but it would be interesting to see the movement of the flagella.

ivy