Dinoflagellates.

bertoni said:
Are you saying that the cyanobacteria fix nitrogen and the dinoflagellates feed on the cyanobacteria?
Click to expand...

They don't have to feed on the cyano itself. It could be symbiotic the way corals feed on the carbohydrate generated by zooxanthelle (another dino).

Cyano fixes the Nitrogen gas into biologically available Nitrogen, and the dinos feed on that.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Jezi2BeIEr4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
I found the rest of the video.. but no killer ending yet

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/R5SNC76Hlng" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vGtEoEi9iT4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
and this one was cool too

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/o5ESHXKGBvA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Okay, I agree that a symbiosis is possible, but is there any evidence of it in our tanks. For example, I can't find references to Ostreopsis doing so, at least not yet. Interesting. Thanks for the links!
 
Another Data point to the ongoing theme that everyone's Dinos are not the same:
My amphidinium shows most prominently on the sand after hours of daylight, and largely disappears from the sand overnight. Like normal.

But running my skimmer all night through early morning, and looking at sample after sample in the microscope, I never see amphidinium, (nor my other Dinos I'm calling Coolia either, but they are less studied, and harder to find info on). So where the heck does it go when it leaves the sand?

Turns out some amphidinium species (Those that are laterally flattened, like mine) makes a daily cycle within the sand going deeper at night.

So since I'm going for dirty/max competition then skimming is completely counterproductive, since it removes exclusively Dino competitors and no dinos.
That make sense other than just in my head?
 
Last edited:
I can check it one day before dawn.
I strongly suspect that taking my sandbed out would drop my dino pop by 99%. But it would also remove most of the things I want to compete with the dinos.
It would certainly change the battlefield in any case.
Like I said, a sandbed transplant is one of the things on my list to try. Currently culturing a hopefully healthy one in a separate 10gal tank.
 
Update and positive news:

2 weeks since adding 32lbs of live rock; just examined water from filter socks and found 2 single dino seeds VS about a million tiny unknown microscopic creatures. Their numbers and variety have increased dramatically. Also, coralline algae growth has exploded everywhere.

Anyone else try adding substantial amounts of live rock to their system to battle dinos?
 
seamonster124 said:
Update and positive news:

2 weeks since adding 32lbs of live rock; just examined water from filter socks and found 2 single dino seeds VS about a million tiny unknown microscopic creatures. Their numbers and variety have increased dramatically. Also, coralline algae growth has exploded everywhere.

Anyone else try adding substantial amounts of live rock to their system to battle dinos?
Click to expand...

No as mine has all the live rock it can take but I am adding bacteria so essentially the same thing I would have thought.
 
Bacteria isn't the same as live rock and not all live rock is the same.

I added a lot of live rock... Even to the point of tossing some of my man made rock to make room. I believe it helps a lot. Introducing biodiversity is key.

The problem with captive systems is that they can be prone to extinction events, many of them caused by us! Then, a lone and insidious protist runs rampant.

It's a gamble that the live rock you introduce will have the right predator, but why not try?

But small pieces from many diverse biosystems would have the best chance of hitting the lottery... And finding the controlling ciliate that chomps down on the particular dinos you have.
 
So I tried removing the floating green islands in my phyto reactor... It was HARD to grab. It's super slimy and breaks up worse that trying to grab cyano. I finally caught a patch and it was super bright green.

I put it in the tank... We'll see what happens.
 
taricha said:
Another Data point to the ongoing theme that everyone's Dinos are not the same:
My amphidinium shows most prominently on the sand after hours of daylight, and largely disappears from the sand overnight. Like normal.

... some amphidinium species (Those that are laterally flattened, like mine) makes a daily cycle within the sand going deeper at night.
Click to expand...

A really good find. I've suspected that as a possibility for a long time, but never seen it documented. I bet ostis can do that to some degree as well.

A dino species like Ostreopsis can change their tactic based on the environment like using rocks instead of absent sandbed, move closer to the surface in a poorly lit tank or use their mixotrophic skills in the absent of light or nutrition.

Your experiments are very helpful.
 
seamonster124 said:
Update and positive news:

Anyone else try adding substantial amounts of live rock to their system to battle dinos?
Click to expand...

I've already proved that, in this thread, with multiple experiments as a certainty for good results.
There is a lasting effect for many months, but it has always ended with the dinos taking over again.

Substantial is the key here.
 
I met a fellow reefer yesterday and his tank has been run by dinos for a few years.
Despite of decent lights his handful of corals did not grow well and there was not a single spec of coraline to be seen.

Just brown rocks. How sad is that?
 
DNA said:
I'm urging readers and dino sufferers to upgrade from being a follower to a thinker and doer.
Click to expand...

Done.

I decided last week to get serious about my dinos after 2 occasions where siphoning followed by 3-day lights out only served to beat them back for a month or so. I started reading this thread and thinking what might do it for me, but gave up after the first 20 (!!) pages. This reply is on what, page 124? Is there an executive summary someplace!? lol

Methods I've read that seem to have no success:
-Looking for a magical cure to eradicate an organism that has been around for 500 million years.
-Guessing what you have based on googled pictures.
-randomly trying stuff and giving up when things don't transform in 24 hours.

Where I think I went wrong is a combination of a lot of things, resulting in water that is 'too clean' by stripping too much from the water.
-Wet skimming pulling as much out of the water as I can
-Carbon dosing, stripping virtually all nitrates from the water
-heavy regular GFO use resulting in no detectable phosphates

What I think (hope) will work over time:
-Re-balancing the micro ecosystem to out-compete them and at least keep them visually out of sight.

So far I've
-borrowed a microscope from the lab at work to confirm Ostreopsis. The little sesame seed shaped heathens are spinning about on their point, or in a small circle. I've ordered my own microscope so that over time, I can gauge the health and diversity of the microfauna in my water, sand and on the rock.
-Turned down my skimmer
-gradually dialed back my carbon dosing over a week, to reach 0 yesterday.
-Replaced the carbon source (vinegar) with a bottle of 3% hydrogen peroxide, dosed at 2ml per 10 gal (for now) about 2 hours after lights out. It's on a dosing pump so I know it won't get skipped.
 
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