Travis1787
Active member
Ha you answered right before I asked thank!!!!
Ill get some pics of my system up with the UV
Dinoflagellates.
- Thread starter DNA
- Start date
Ha you answered right before I asked thank!!!!
Ill get some pics of my system up with the UV
karimwassef
Active member
take before and after pics. I rarely took pics before (too ashamed...) and I regret it now.
It's really important when it comes to helping others... keeping good logs of data, images, etc... it really adds to our collective knowledge.
It's really important when it comes to helping others... keeping good logs of data, images, etc... it really adds to our collective knowledge.
Travis1787
Active member
Here is my setup
Here are the problems
My Over flows are always like that highly annoying and other areas of sand are like the first picture. I'm not sure if its dinos but after reading through bits of these pages it sounds like it.
This setup is also very new its about 3 months in but the 110 I transferred from had the same issue. I had already bought a UV recently to help out with controlling parasites and I'm really curious to see what it will do in helping with the algae. Just got the UV in line tonight so it begins now! Here is the setup.
This is in the bathroom closet which is directly behind my tank so its all plumbed right through the wall.
So the UV water drains into the holding tank, which drains into socks in sump which then goes through the Skimmer zone and bubbles traps and then return zone which feeds DT,reactors and UV/holding tank.
karimwassef
Active member
I'd add carbon - as they die, they can release nasty chemicals.
And wash the socks to remove the dead... or remove the socks and let the skimmer clean them up.
I ran my UV in lights out to export as many as possible as fast as possible.
And wash the socks to remove the dead... or remove the socks and let the skimmer clean them up.
I ran my UV in lights out to export as many as possible as fast as possible.
Karimwassef I wish I had taken before and after pics as well but like you too embarrassed lol! Mind you my outbreak was spotted early so never looked as bad as some although the impact on some corals was obvious. I can't add carbon yet as still using the polyp lab medic. Day four of having lights back to normal although have reduced the red spectrum a bit rocks are looking the cleanest they have ever been. All zoos, xenia, colt coral and Kenya trees looking good. Just two tiny spots appearing on them but most of the dusting gone now. 10 micron socks lasting two days now as well. Still dosing bacteria, coral snow and polyp lab medic to help with what seems to be a very slight outbreak of WS just on my coral beauty. I suspect this has been due to me doing so much siphoning! Pretty sure that is helping get rid of the 'dust' as after dosing I get a nice load of bits floating into the water column. Cheato completely clear now and starting to grow again, adding a nice population of pods every day as I now have a nice breeding tank going on. I still can't say it has gone completely but every day there is less and less just two or three strings yesterday on the colt and Kenya tree.
DNA
New member
Experiments!
I have so many dinos to experiment on...
This is even better than dinos in a test tube.
karimwassef
Active member
Why is beaker > test tube?
I seem to be winning the battle for the moment against my ostreopsis. After a week, visually, it is mostly gone from the rocks and sand surface in the display. It became more abundant on egg crate in my frag tank, so I've banished that for the moment also. Corals seems to be doing better, less closed, and my plate, hammer and torch corals seem to be well inflated and extended more than I've seen in a while. Carbonate (alk) consumption is up as well, but by what percentage I still need to work out.
I still have no measurable phosphates or nitrates in the water column
The theory I've hung my hopes on is a lack of abundance and diversity of microfauna and microbial life, which seems to be improving. I'm basing this on microscopic observations of water samples, which I'm getting after taking a cup of substrate from the most afflicted spots, and taking a sample with a syringe from below the sand in said cup. There seems to be fewer dinos in the sample, and more (at least a dozen) ciliates I think. They are single cell beasties that move about with little hairs as legs. Last week, I only saw two, one each in 2 of 3 samples. There were also 4 or 5 worm shaped microbes, I've no idea what they might be called. Last week I only saw one of them, once, out of three samples.
What I've done so far:
-stopped carbon dosing (vinegar)
-2ml/10 gal hydrogen peroxide
-reduced skimming
-increased feeding
-adding 2 capfulls of Seachem Reef Phytoplankton daily
This is all very anecdotal, but if there's any specific data I can begin collecting, or results I can test for repeatability, please let me know.
I still have no measurable phosphates or nitrates in the water column
The theory I've hung my hopes on is a lack of abundance and diversity of microfauna and microbial life, which seems to be improving. I'm basing this on microscopic observations of water samples, which I'm getting after taking a cup of substrate from the most afflicted spots, and taking a sample with a syringe from below the sand in said cup. There seems to be fewer dinos in the sample, and more (at least a dozen) ciliates I think. They are single cell beasties that move about with little hairs as legs. Last week, I only saw two, one each in 2 of 3 samples. There were also 4 or 5 worm shaped microbes, I've no idea what they might be called. Last week I only saw one of them, once, out of three samples.
What I've done so far:
-stopped carbon dosing (vinegar)
-2ml/10 gal hydrogen peroxide
-reduced skimming
-increased feeding
-adding 2 capfulls of Seachem Reef Phytoplankton daily
This is all very anecdotal, but if there's any specific data I can begin collecting, or results I can test for repeatability, please let me know.
Last edited:
Travis1787
Active member
Any order those need to be done in? Can you start dosing phyto anytime? Do you need to cut out carbon dosing/pellets before adding peroxide?
I did them all at about the same time. But I'm no authority on the subject, I'm just a desperate reefer up against a difficult, persistent pest.
From what I've read, ostreopsis is the most resilient type of common dinoflagellate. There's no 'one' cure, it needs to be multifaceted, sustained for several weeks, and probably repeated again periodically.
Travis1787
Active member
How can I know for sure this is what Im battling? Only way is under a scope?
yes. Post pics from the microscope, get help or compare to what you see on here: http://www.algaeid.com/identification/
justthewife
New member
my update
my update
I am just posting an update on my tank. I am assuming what I have in the tank may be amphidinium dino's. We were running the UV lite 24/7 and we noticed a big decrease in the dino's on the corals rocks and sand. Most of what was left was only in patches on the sand. My husband was syphoning out a lot of the dinos on the sand weekly as well. Then we added the macro algae and pods and that also helped. Last weekend we added Seachem Stability and shut off the UV for 24 hours as directed on their website. Today I am looking in the tank and the dino's are returning. So it is either from adding the Stability, shutting off the UV for 24 hours or a little of both? I have a question mark there because I am speculating. So I don't think I will be adding that anymore. Oh, and we have also been running a little dirtier tank than usual for the last few months no longer aiming for zero nitrates.
my update
I am just posting an update on my tank. I am assuming what I have in the tank may be amphidinium dino's. We were running the UV lite 24/7 and we noticed a big decrease in the dino's on the corals rocks and sand. Most of what was left was only in patches on the sand. My husband was syphoning out a lot of the dinos on the sand weekly as well. Then we added the macro algae and pods and that also helped. Last weekend we added Seachem Stability and shut off the UV for 24 hours as directed on their website. Today I am looking in the tank and the dino's are returning. So it is either from adding the Stability, shutting off the UV for 24 hours or a little of both? I have a question mark there because I am speculating. So I don't think I will be adding that anymore. Oh, and we have also been running a little dirtier tank than usual for the last few months no longer aiming for zero nitrates.
karimwassef
Active member
why stop UV?? I left my UV on for months after I got the dinos out. It gave the other benthic microorganisms time to take hold.
justthewife
New member
the UV was not stopped altogether. Just for 24 hours per the Seachem Stability instructions to allow the spores to dilute and turn into bacteria and then make its way to rocks or sand. It is so the UV doesn't kill the beneficial bacteria while in the water column. The UV was turned on again after the initial dose of the Stability was added and allowed to settle.
I am wondering if the dino's were feeding on the added bacteria.
karimwassef
Active member
I am all for adding bacteria, but I add it directly to regions with high surface area.. Sandbed, rockwork, especially between and around the rocks, cryptic zones, etc...
IMO - I would turn flow off at night and apply the bacteria to the regions with the highest dino populations by day and give it some time (an hour?)... Then turn flow on again.
If some are killed by UV- it's casualties of war.
They usually also say to stop skimming. I don't do that. The extra bacteria population could consume a lot of oxygen, so I keep everything on.
IMO - I would turn flow off at night and apply the bacteria to the regions with the highest dino populations by day and give it some time (an hour?)... Then turn flow on again.
If some are killed by UV- it's casualties of war.
They usually also say to stop skimming. I don't do that. The extra bacteria population could consume a lot of oxygen, so I keep everything on.
Thanks for taking on the task of developing a useful FAQ, Quiet_Ivy.
H2O2 + UV was a thing back in 2014...
...but it didn't catch on because the dinos always came back.
I don't know as anyone has tried H2O2 + UV and followed up with the dirty method or pods & phyto to keep the dinos down, but it looks like it might be worth a shot.
Not to mention what looks like a proper lab bench to work on. Neat. Where are you doing your mad scientist thing?
Have you tried transplanting a beaker of dino sand into your 10G live sand culture tank? That is, have you tried the reverse of the experiment with the phyto tea in an upside-down fish bowl?
Or if you don't want to risk that, have you played around with feeding dinos to your phyto tea? The idea being to increase the populations of whatever creatures, be they bacteria or protists or microfauna, are eating the dinos before you dose your tank.
Seachem Stability contains a lot of nitrogen cycle bacteria, but in a fully cycled tank, at any given moment there are about as many N-cycle bacteria as the tank can support. Even if the bacteria in Stability successfully hatch and take over the appropriate ecological niches in your sand bed, their success will come at the expense of an established population of nitrogen cycle bacteria, so large numbers of bacteria are dying somewhere and providing a burst of fresh nutrients for the dinos' bacteria farms.
Or maybe some OTC bacteria products are dino chow, as you suggested.
Quiet_Ivy may have better info in her chart, but IIRC PorkchopExpress and cal_stir reported OTC bacteria-in-a-bottle did nothing and stopped dosing. There doesn't seem to have been much enthusiasm for it until relatively recently, though this is an exception:
So You Think You Have Dinos said:
H2O2 + UV was a thing back in 2014...
...but it didn't catch on because the dinos always came back.
I don't know as anyone has tried H2O2 + UV and followed up with the dirty method or pods & phyto to keep the dinos down, but it looks like it might be worth a shot.
taricha said:
Not to mention what looks like a proper lab bench to work on. Neat. Where are you doing your mad scientist thing?
Have you tried transplanting a beaker of dino sand into your 10G live sand culture tank? That is, have you tried the reverse of the experiment with the phyto tea in an upside-down fish bowl?
Or if you don't want to risk that, have you played around with feeding dinos to your phyto tea? The idea being to increase the populations of whatever creatures, be they bacteria or protists or microfauna, are eating the dinos before you dose your tank.
justthewife said:
Seachem Stability contains a lot of nitrogen cycle bacteria, but in a fully cycled tank, at any given moment there are about as many N-cycle bacteria as the tank can support. Even if the bacteria in Stability successfully hatch and take over the appropriate ecological niches in your sand bed, their success will come at the expense of an established population of nitrogen cycle bacteria, so large numbers of bacteria are dying somewhere and providing a burst of fresh nutrients for the dinos' bacteria farms.
Or maybe some OTC bacteria products are dino chow, as you suggested.
Quiet_Ivy may have better info in her chart, but IIRC PorkchopExpress and cal_stir reported OTC bacteria-in-a-bottle did nothing and stopped dosing. There doesn't seem to have been much enthusiasm for it until relatively recently, though this is an exception:
karimwassef
Active member
Who's used Dr Tim's waste away bacteria? They displace cyano
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/natural-aquarium-cleaner
http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/natural-aquarium-cleaner
In my physics classroom. [emoji12]
Nope, still waiting for my live sand culture to get more algae filled (getting close), but it's pretty live with tiny pods already. But you're exactly right. I will add dinos to the culture sand first.
Besides, if the culture live sand can't kill a few ml of dinos, then there's no point going through with the sandbed transplant.
Thanks so much for crystalizing the idea for me. That idea connects a lot of things I've had knocking around in my head for a couple of days:
Most of my beaker tests are based on the theory of the skimmer green tea outcompeting dinos for some resource like trace elements, but as I looked at papers on the topic, depletion was having an effect on the dinos over like 4 weeks or 8+ weeks. It just doesn't match what I'm seeing (dinos gone in 4-7 days). The short time scale strongly suggests predation (or poisoning etc). Realized this only after I set up my beaker tests.
The skimmer tea is practically dino free (my dinos don't leave the sand) and likely concentrates stuff that eats dinos.
In the right ratios it can eradicate a patch of dinos.
In insufficient ratios, the dinos are unaffected.
I put the skimmer stuff in light for 24-48 hours to try to concentrate whatever is in there, but it looks thin under the scope. Maybe it would work better straight out of the skimmer.
After a few days of putting the mix with the dinos, at the time the dinos are decreasing, under the scope the mix looks absolutely packed with zooming life.
I've also thought maybe I should cultivate the skimmer mix in the dark, that way the organisms in the mix would be undisturbed by lights out, and I could hit the dinos with a 1-2 of darkness + skimmer mix. I couldn't call it "green tea" though, Maybe I'll call that skimmer "black tea."
Thank you again.
