Yeah, this thread is big and we've forgotten a lot of things that were effective for some cases.
If there's still anything in your tank that might be done in by dino toxin, run carbon and skim heavy just in case UV works.
Dinoflagellates.
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If there's still anything in your tank that might be done in by dino toxin, run carbon and skim heavy just in case UV works.
I think your sand bed removal, plus marine snow prevention is probably effective against several different kinds of dinos.
It would also increase effectiveness of other methods as well.
Sand beds offer mechanical protection to buried dino cysts, and likely a level of chemical protection from oxidizers, and other chemical treatments.
Twillard reported elsewhere that osti cysts in sand bed survived bleach(!) treatment.
We definitely need to have other people try your method.
(Personally, my tank would have to be pretty far gone before I'd pull my sand bed out.)
koral_lover
New member
just spent the last 5 weeks doing large water changes with a shop/wet vac removing all my sand (crushed coral). As the last 10 or so page of this thread convinced me that removing my sandbed would be essential. Tons of detritus in there, etc. - but this did nothing to the dino population...if anything, the dinos are now all over the rock where as before they were staying in the sand more.
I am seriously shaken by all this - removing the sand was my last straw - this has taken so much of my time and caused a great deal of stress where my previous reef tanks had been so enjoyable. Not sure what to do at this point - tried dirty method, tried clean method, which seems to reduce them quite a bit, but corals pale and fish go hungry, so when you up the food some they explode again. I think my battle is over, and dinos have won. Maybe Ill try to see how bad I can get them in my tank for fun...
I am seriously shaken by all this - removing the sand was my last straw - this has taken so much of my time and caused a great deal of stress where my previous reef tanks had been so enjoyable. Not sure what to do at this point - tried dirty method, tried clean method, which seems to reduce them quite a bit, but corals pale and fish go hungry, so when you up the food some they explode again. I think my battle is over, and dinos have won. Maybe Ill try to see how bad I can get them in my tank for fun...
karimwassef
Active member
try ignoring the tank and letting algae take over. what do you have to lose? just continue dosing ca and alk and wait.
ReefPharmer
Active member
I may be lucky but I dosed 3ml/gal of h2o2 and the bloom has significantly subsided. I did this before the whole tank was taken over and it seems to have done the trick
karimwassef
Active member
I still believe the answer is to grow algae and feed it with enoug phosphate and nitrates to grab hold.
Kurt03
Active member
This seemed to work for me. I had to dose po4 and no3 but once I got values up it seemed to be a turning point. Still takes a while. For me anyways... This tank is still up and running fairly smoothly now. No sign of Dino's and algae is under control..
+1 With only 4 years in the hobby, my experience is limited but what I have found is that for me the addition of an algae turf scrubber has greatly improved the overall health of my tank and has also proved to be an effective tool at keeping nuisance algae at bay.
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karimwassef
Active member
I see dinos as an evolutionary branch that's contrary to the way healthy reefs operate today with algae as the natural scrubbers of waste.
So.. a dino infested tank has basically been bombed into the "stone age" and need to go back and change direction from the ground up. It starts with welcoming and cultivating algae as the normal base of a healthy reef ecosystem...
The good news is that hair algae is actually a capable contender when it gets the right food. Maybe adding iron to bolster that ecological path win would accelerate things?
Once algae starts to take hold, it's a matter of time.
So.. a dino infested tank has basically been bombed into the "stone age" and need to go back and change direction from the ground up. It starts with welcoming and cultivating algae as the normal base of a healthy reef ecosystem...
The good news is that hair algae is actually a capable contender when it gets the right food. Maybe adding iron to bolster that ecological path win would accelerate things?
Once algae starts to take hold, it's a matter of time.
koral_lover
New member
Thanks for your input - I will try to see how much I can get them to explode...its so painful to watch...I can already hardly see the rock as its covered with a mix of dinos and cyano...going to feed the tank while gritting my teeth!
Will keep the thread updated as the bloom occurs. Dosing aminos, phyto, or any essential elements also appears to be like wildfire as the next day the amount of dinos have doubled!
karimwassef
Active member
actually.. try this.. stop dosing aminos and phyto or any essential elements...
you're trying to grow a garden before introducing higher level life.
Feed like you're cycling the tank.. if you have fish, feed them. The only thing to maintain in addition to normal fish food is alk and calcium.
you're trying to grow a garden before introducing higher level life.
Feed like you're cycling the tank.. if you have fish, feed them. The only thing to maintain in addition to normal fish food is alk and calcium.
Kurt03
Active member
I had to test daily and dose po4/no3 to get the algae started. Overfeeding by itself didn't do it for me. I was dumping an uncomfortable amount of food in the tank and it seemed to just fuel the Dino's, along with levels remaining undetectable. Each tank is different though, each with a missing Link causing a pro dino environment Imo.
Yep. Same. 3-5x as much food, dumped skimmate back in tank, added kno3 (+10ppm N) and high P miracle grow (+0.10 P) daily for weeks without signs of increasing nutrients.
Made me really question laws of conservation. I was exporting nothing, and could not figure where it was all going.
karimwassef
Active member
Good point. The infestation starts because of a unique chemical imbalance (usually driven by our own virulent attempts to eradicate algae 
).
In my case, I use Lanthanum to eliminate phosphates. For others, it's overindulging carbon dosing eliminating nitrates... point is we went too far in our zealous endeavors and now we need to reset.
To right the ship, we need to know which chemical is missing that algae needs & feed it. I went so far as to consider adding Miracle Grow right down to looking at the toxicity of the metals in it. Maybe that's too much
Today, I'm proud of my massive waste collecting sediment filter and algae scrubber tank:
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/6A1D4A56-6D9C-4852-B0A4-E1EBD517E95C_zpsytpo6lwa.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/6A1D4A56-6D9C-4852-B0A4-E1EBD517E95C_zpsytpo6lwa.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 6A1D4A56-6D9C-4852-B0A4-E1EBD517E95C_zpsytpo6lwa.jpg"></a>
And I even keep track of my CO2 to make sure my precious green garden is satisfied without robbing carbonates from my SPS:
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/2E40D3F8-10A1-4E1F-8173-B99A4A5E1794_zpsiyjmrx3d.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/2E40D3F8-10A1-4E1F-8173-B99A4A5E1794_zpsiyjmrx3d.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2E40D3F8-10A1-4E1F-8173-B99A4A5E1794_zpsiyjmrx3d.jpg"></a>
and just to stay in balance, I don't even throw my algae away! I feed it back to my DT fish:
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/CABDC418-1517-4734-8E0E-922C04BBEA7B_zpsrmtsbddb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/CABDC418-1517-4734-8E0E-922C04BBEA7B_zpsrmtsbddb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo CABDC418-1517-4734-8E0E-922C04BBEA7B_zpsrmtsbddb.jpg"></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_7234_zpsime9xskt.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_7234_zpsime9xskt.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_7234_zpsime9xskt.jpg"></a>
Like the Irish guy on the Scott's commercial says: "Feed your lawn! FEED it!"
).In my case, I use Lanthanum to eliminate phosphates. For others, it's overindulging carbon dosing eliminating nitrates... point is we went too far in our zealous endeavors and now we need to reset.
To right the ship, we need to know which chemical is missing that algae needs & feed it. I went so far as to consider adding Miracle Grow right down to looking at the toxicity of the metals in it. Maybe that's too much
Today, I'm proud of my massive waste collecting sediment filter and algae scrubber tank:
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/6A1D4A56-6D9C-4852-B0A4-E1EBD517E95C_zpsytpo6lwa.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/6A1D4A56-6D9C-4852-B0A4-E1EBD517E95C_zpsytpo6lwa.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 6A1D4A56-6D9C-4852-B0A4-E1EBD517E95C_zpsytpo6lwa.jpg"></a>
And I even keep track of my CO2 to make sure my precious green garden is satisfied without robbing carbonates from my SPS:
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/2E40D3F8-10A1-4E1F-8173-B99A4A5E1794_zpsiyjmrx3d.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/2E40D3F8-10A1-4E1F-8173-B99A4A5E1794_zpsiyjmrx3d.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2E40D3F8-10A1-4E1F-8173-B99A4A5E1794_zpsiyjmrx3d.jpg"></a>
and just to stay in balance, I don't even throw my algae away! I feed it back to my DT fish:
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/CABDC418-1517-4734-8E0E-922C04BBEA7B_zpsrmtsbddb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/CABDC418-1517-4734-8E0E-922C04BBEA7B_zpsrmtsbddb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo CABDC418-1517-4734-8E0E-922C04BBEA7B_zpsrmtsbddb.jpg"></a>
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/IMG_7234_zpsime9xskt.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/IMG_7234_zpsime9xskt.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_7234_zpsime9xskt.jpg"></a>
Like the Irish guy on the Scott's commercial says: "Feed your lawn! FEED it!"
Some people believe that when you have a clean tank and rocks, any excess nutrients will get sucked into the rocks. That is if you don't have any other inorganic filtration. I think that might be what's going on. It would take a while for the rocks to reach saturated levels in order for them to leak back enough nutrients into the water to grow algae on the rocks.
What do you guys think? I just feel like there is no way dinos could be eating all these excess nutrients.
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What do you guys think? I just feel like there is no way dinos could be eating all these excess nutrients.
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karimwassef
Active member
I think that's a myth. Rocks are sources of nutrients, not sinks. That's because diffusion inside rock (even porous rock) is so slow that it doesn't really matter. Now sand, on the other hand, has significant impact IMO.
The exception in rock would be if there is substantial surface growth like sponges, tunicates, worms, pods, starfish, etc... those could be absorbing waste and food if the rock is established. But new rock or land based rock wouldn't be much of a sink to nutrients. Much greater likelihood to leaching out instead.
The sand needs agitation to be healthy & that's usually best performed by worms (again IMO). If the sand bed fauna dies and the process of nutrient uptake diminishes, it could likewise become a source of waste. If that waste stays trapped very close to the sand surface, that zone may not be conducive to algal growth. Algae likes high flow high light.
Dinos, in contrast, don't need flow and can thrive at low light. So a dead sandbed could create a local food supply that feeds dinos before the nutrients can get up to the rocks where algae can prosper.
So I would add "flow" to the remedy above. Keep the nutrients suspended up where algae can have at it.
The exception in rock would be if there is substantial surface growth like sponges, tunicates, worms, pods, starfish, etc... those could be absorbing waste and food if the rock is established. But new rock or land based rock wouldn't be much of a sink to nutrients. Much greater likelihood to leaching out instead.
The sand needs agitation to be healthy & that's usually best performed by worms (again IMO). If the sand bed fauna dies and the process of nutrient uptake diminishes, it could likewise become a source of waste. If that waste stays trapped very close to the sand surface, that zone may not be conducive to algal growth. Algae likes high flow high light.
Dinos, in contrast, don't need flow and can thrive at low light. So a dead sandbed could create a local food supply that feeds dinos before the nutrients can get up to the rocks where algae can prosper.
So I would add "flow" to the remedy above. Keep the nutrients suspended up where algae can have at it.
karimwassef
Active member
For reference, my sediment filter is fed by a circulating flow from two Jebao 15000s. One in the aux sump puming up and one in the tank itself creating a massive loop. That means that I have nearly 6000 gal/hr in a circulating vortex in a 55gal tub that's 6" below 500W of a distributed LED plate. Algae (and unfortunately Xenia) love it.
