Dinoflagellates.

[karimwassef]

In addition to GHA fuzz competing for real estate, photo energy and nutrients, I expect it cultivates a microcosm that consumes and/or interferes with dino biology. Bacteria, plankton, etc...

We need more science here, but the bacteria that promote vs. demote dinos are another space we need to explore.

This isn't to say that peroxide and UV don't hurt dinos, they do. But sterilization doesn't stop them from returning from a tiny refuge. They're just controls.

 

[DNA]

Did you miss the possible cure for Ostreopsis dinoflagellates?

Montireefs claims need to be repeated by several third parties.
He got rid of them with two kilos of fresh live rock and 2 liters of skimmate.
With donated tank water two more reefers got rid of them as well.
He's got videos to back up what seems to be microbes attacking the dinos.
He's identified his dinos with a microscope.

Drop your gut feeling and let's prove if this really works.

 

[Montireef]

My water is available for anyone who wants to get rid of dinos (at least ostreopsis).

The only problem is that I live in Madrid...

 

[tmz]

Hello everyone,

I am also battling dinoflagellates. I've already made the decision to remove all my rock and sand and nuke it ( bleach and muriatic acid). Is there a way I can clean my snails, hermit crabs and peppermint shrimp and reuse them in my tank after everything is thoroughly cleaned and not chance dinos getting in the new tank?

I currently have a hospital tank that I cured ich on my 3 fish that I was thinking about putting my CUC and a couple corals in while I nuke the rock and clean the tank.

Aside from potenital dinoflagellate contamination, the corals and cuc from a tank infested with crytocryon irritans may introduce encysted parasites into the "hopsital tank". These animals may also be harmed by fish medications you may use in qt.

 

[2_zoa]

Aside from potenital dinoflagellate contamination, the corals and cuc from a tank infested with crytocryon irritans may introduce encysted parasites into the "hopsital tank". These animals may also be harmed by fish medications you may use in qt.

tmz,
You have a PM

 

[Budman422]

I don't know if I my tank is finally bearing dinos but I am starting to grow some cyno. I have been feeding heavy to try to elevate nutrients to grow something other than dino. My theory is that if I can get hair cyno and other algae to grow I can find a balance. Not too worried about hair or cyno as they are easy to deal with. I will repost if things change one way or the other

 

[Pants]

Pretty sure that I have dinos in my 180g. Attached are a few pics I took under 800x, just wanted to get a 100% confirmation on it before I start treatment. Can anyone identify these pics? Thanks

That is Prorocentrum. Thats actually the group I study and was hoping to find when i started talking to reefers. I have never had someone send me a sample that actually turned out to be Prorocentrum. You can find some images on my website

Like the other dinos we've observed it is a benthic species that creates toxins (diarrhetic shellfish poisoning).

<--- same as my avatar

 

[DNA]

Nice shots JohhnyPJ.
You definitely have dinoflagellates and they are not Ostreopsis.

Out of the most common tank species yours look most like Prorocentrum.
To be sure look at online videos and compare movement behavior.

Edit: Doh! Someone beat me to it. : )

 

[JohhnyPJ]

That is Prorocentrum. Thats actually the group I study and was hoping to find when i started talking to reefers. I have never had someone send me a sample that actually turned out to be Prorocentrum. You can find some images on my website

Like the other dinos we've observed it is a benthic species that creates toxins (diarrhetic shellfish poisoning).

<--- same as my avatar

Thank so much for the quick reply guys! We are considering a few different things for treatment but are also open to your suggestions.

1) LFS suggested black out for 10 days followed by a 6 hour light cycle for 3 days and repeat for up to 2 months.
2) Increase ph by dosing kalkwasser to 8.6-8.9.
3) Dose hydrogen peroxide to whole tank at 1ml per 10 gallons for 2 weeks

What do you guys think?

Pants we have lots to go around, let us know if you want a sample.

Thanks again!

 

[karimwassef]

Is there a list of the most common dinos in a home reef and their identification (macro and micro)?

 

[mandrieu]

Hey Pants, I'll in Frederick this Saturday 1/24, in the morning likely.
I can carry 1 gallon or so from my tank with some really happy and healthy dinos. Maybe you can ID them for me. I've tried so many things and nothing works that I'm wondering if I truly have dinos or I have the meanest creature on Earth in my tank. 1 year and counting fighting it...

I'll send you a PM.

 

[DNA]

Is there a list of the most common dinos in a home reef and their identification (macro and micro)?

I see you have not been paying much attention.
It's been mentioned at least 10 times in this thread.
Try 4 posts up for last reference.

 

[Pants]

Hey Pants, I'll in Frederick this Saturday 1/24, in the morning likely.
I can carry 1 gallon or so from my tank with some really happy and healthy dinos. Maybe you can ID them for me. I've tried so many things and nothing works that I'm wondering if I truly have dinos or I have the meanest creature on Earth in my tank. 1 year and counting fighting it...

I'll send you a PM.

I'll be there. From the macro shots you posted awhile ago it sure looks like dinos to me. I don't seem to be as good as others at identifying these from macro photos though.

 

[karimwassef]

? There are several posts with individual cases. I've posted the one with general dinos , but not one specific to captive reefs.

 

[Dave & Monica]

Wow Pants, nice site- great pics!

 

[SurlyT]

Pants - the antibiotic attack occurred to me last year, but I had no idea which one(s) to try and didn't have the patience (or money) to run through a bunch of them at random. So I appreciate that you've found one that works on ostreopsis.

Out of curiosity, do you think the antibiotic kills the dinos directly? Or does it kill symbiotic bacteria which indirectly results in the death of the dinos?

 

[karimwassef]

Oh! Missed that little link.

 

[dartier]

Not only bacteria but many other microorganisms like nematodes and ciliates. Skimmate is mainly water plus a Ca and Mg insoluble carbonates. It has no nitrate and little phosphate but can have SH2.

Snails keep pooping black crap for almost a week, that's the main drawback. Lol

The next day I watched cristal clear water, higher redox and many black poop from my turbo snails (they love it). Corals extended awesome polyps two days after pouring it.

Do you think with adding the aged skimmate you are adding something to prey on and eat dinos. Maybe there is something to it. It kind of works like a culture

I would expect that is exactly what it does (works like a culture). The common observation is that water changes fuel dinos. Allowing the skimmate to culture limits the dinos access to added trace elements, and the dinos are food for the mystery microbes.

Wow, this approach makes no sense to me. If you are right then skimmers are a detriment to water quality. I know there are a number of successful skimmerless systems but anecdotally there appear to be more systems that use skimmers successfully. We know the research confirms high quality skimmers take out about 30% of organic contaminants in our water columns. Why would you think returning those contaminants would be a good thing?

In this case where some unidentified microbe and dinos were both present in the tank, the skimmer acted as a sort of a condenser, allowing a high density sample of predator and prey to be segregated. I do the same thing when I culture pods (except I use a pipette ).

Most contaminants taken out by skimmers are bad indeed, no doubt about that.

I have run a 125 gal skimmerless acropora system for more than two years with no issues at all, every coral was thriving despite I held three big angelfish (annularis, imperator and xanthometopon), a big japonicus, one flavescens and many small fishes. The only drawback was very unstable and every change should be done very slowly, specially changes in their diet.

The point here is not what the skimmer is taking out, but the microorganisms that compete and grow in the skimmate. Do you know what happens if you let the skimmate sit in the skimmer cup warm in a humid environment that prevent rapid evaporation? I'll tell you: the skimmate turns turbid clear, just like the water you could find in a pond.

The skimmate holds the most efficient bacteria and microorganisms you could imagine: nematodes, rotifers, cocos, spiros...and ciliates, many ciliates (with use to be omnivore creatures). This is what we just want: efficient selected microorganisms able to prey on dinoflagellates which are on the first trophic step.

Just place some GAC on your filter/mesh to remove the bad stuff and release the stinky waters back to the tank, I'm sure you will be surprised.

If the unknown microbe could be identified, it would go along way to help confirm the process that occurred in your tank.

It may be that tanks that get overrun with dinos have none of these types of predators, or that they are too specialized so they die off in some tanks. The suggestion that dinos seem to appear hand in hand with ULNS conditions, may also be related. The low nutrients may be taking out the predators that keep dinos in check, but unlike the predators, the dinos can encyst and wait for the predators extinction, and then grow to plague proportions without any biological controls.

This is a great observation Montireef.

Dennis

 

[coralsnaked]

This thread is this long because really nothing is a sure fire way to get rid of Dino's without burning the tank w/ bleach. Let the other algae take over along with Cyano. Once they outcompete the Dinos and starve them out then you can deal with them in normal fashions. Everything else is just unreliable and time consuming. This is from my experience.

 

[Montireef]

Completely agree, Dennis, specially on this:

"unlike the predators, the dinos can encyst and wait for the predators extinction, and then grow to plague proportions without any biological controls"

Almost one month later I am spotting some ostreopsis cells on the microscope. They were gone, but now they are back.