Dinoflagellates.
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Aquarist007
New member
That does not look like dinos to me but DNA would know best
I use this guide
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/186736-nuisance-algae-guide/
As you can see in video 5, the vast majority of the blobs are not like the 2 that can be seen moving, which you say you think are dinos (and look that way to me too). That view is at 100x, so the field of view is about 1.8mm. It looks maybe even that the slime stuff might be mainly made up of something thats not even cellular, but is trapping some stuff in it. Maybe those smaller things exude some kind of slime for instance, which creates the bulk of the algae mass you can see in the photos. Its very fragile stuff and I can't pull sheets off like cyano can for instance. If I put the siphon tube up against the rock I can take a lot of it off in the flow, although not all of it.
Its quite confusing because a year or so ago I looked and had a similar looking problem, but under the scope there was vast numbers of the things that look like dinos. Since it all happened I have not done much to the tank, I almost gave up, so apart from the occasional brush of the rocks and siphon out the gunge, I have made little effort to clean up the tank. Now summers over I am going to tackle it aggressively, before restocking with some smaller frags and seeing how it goes. But I would like to identify this stuff and maybe try to actually go at it scientifically, so next time I (and others) are more prepared. I am thinking that by identifying these algaes properly maybe we can make some progress collectively against nucience algaes.
I think I'll take another sample today and look again, to see if the last sample was just not representitive of the bulk of the algae.
Its quite confusing because a year or so ago I looked and had a similar looking problem, but under the scope there was vast numbers of the things that look like dinos. Since it all happened I have not done much to the tank, I almost gave up, so apart from the occasional brush of the rocks and siphon out the gunge, I have made little effort to clean up the tank. Now summers over I am going to tackle it aggressively, before restocking with some smaller frags and seeing how it goes. But I would like to identify this stuff and maybe try to actually go at it scientifically, so next time I (and others) are more prepared. I am thinking that by identifying these algaes properly maybe we can make some progress collectively against nucience algaes.
I think I'll take another sample today and look again, to see if the last sample was just not representitive of the bulk of the algae.
Thanks 007, I did take a look at that page just now but didn't see any that really looked like my algae apart from the cyano - and looking at microscope piccies of cyano, they all seem to be filaments. But I'm not sure about that.
I also found this page just now which is interesting
http://botany.si.edu/references/dinoflag/taxa.htm
If you click on each one, it pops up a window, and then you have to click the 'plates' link, and you get piccies of each dino. I didn't see any that look like mine, but the piccy I got of my dino was not that clear so I am not sure.
I also found this page just now which is interesting
http://botany.si.edu/references/dinoflag/taxa.htm
If you click on each one, it pops up a window, and then you have to click the 'plates' link, and you get piccies of each dino. I didn't see any that look like mine, but the piccy I got of my dino was not that clear so I am not sure.
Aquarist007
New member
Thanks for the link
Curious what the levels of nitrates and phosphates are in your tank
i don't have a nitrate test so am going to take a sample to the LFS today - I think they will test it for me. As for phosphates, zero on hanna... odd.
I did just take another slide and the plot thickens. Ill post the images later but in this one I see lots of very fine filaments, although almost all of them are clear. But theres one or two which are green and look very much like the piccies of cyano I have seen. Maybe the clear ones are dead cyano I am wondering. Ill post the images later but I want to rush to the LFS before the missus gets home and gives me other jobs to do
I did just take another slide and the plot thickens. Ill post the images later but in this one I see lots of very fine filaments, although almost all of them are clear. But theres one or two which are green and look very much like the piccies of cyano I have seen. Maybe the clear ones are dead cyano I am wondering. Ill post the images later but I want to rush to the LFS before the missus gets home and gives me other jobs to do
Oh theres also a shot of what looks like a dino, but its not moving, and it has clear filaments coming out of it. Theres a coupe of different ones like that. I did see on some page earlier a similar looking organisim but I don't remember what it was, ill have to search again later.
Aquarist007
New member
i don't have a nitrate test so am going to take a sample to the LFS today - I think they will test it for me. As for phosphates, zero on hanna... odd.
I did just take another slide and the plot thickens. Ill post the images later but in this one I see lots of very fine filaments, although almost all of them are clear. But theres one or two which are green and look very much like the piccies of cyano I have seen. Maybe the clear ones are dead cyano I am wondering. Ill post the images later but I want to rush to the LFS before the missus gets home and gives me other jobs to do
Apologize for stupid request.algae is consuming the phosphates .. Duh
I'd try running a Gfo media in a reactor and see what happens.
IUfan
Member
I siphoned a bunch out today. My sump is the worst culprit for this stuff, it's full of it. DT only has a small amount, so think I need to switch to a different sump that has filter socks and less detritus traps.
This is it in the bucket. Does it look like dinos to you?
Viewer discretion advised! Looks like a bucket of dog puke. Horrible stuff
jedimasterben
LED world domination!
Not like dinoflagellates at all.
Aquarist007
New member
I'd strip down the sump and clean it right out. Problems down the road with all that crud.
scubadan206
Member
When I was dealing with dino's, it behaved like regular algae. The stuff was consuming nutrients extremely fast. When I did a three week lights out the nitrates spiked to over 50 in under a week. Nitrates and phosphates had previously tested at zero.
Here's an original pic from when it was really bad
View attachment 298937
Daniel. :wildone:
Here's an original pic from when it was really bad
View attachment 298937
Daniel. :wildone:
Aquarist007
New member
The sump could be feeding the algae in the dt. You really should keep your sump squeaky clean:thumbsup:
Aquarist007
New member
The old adage"if you algae then you have nitrates and or phosphates"
I'd run Gfo for three to five days
Off topic but some might be interested. A chap called Glenn is using iron citrate to remove phosphate, its a liquid that he doses (very carefully). Hes got a great looking SPS reef tank (the other weird thing is he is not doing water changes and tests hos water and adds the elements he needs instead). Anyway I was quite interested in this phosphate removal method. My phosphate it turns out is 0 anyway, and I might even start dosing it (another aside, he says he has found phosphate of 0.02 and nitrate of 2.5 much better for SPS, so he actually doses phosphate and nitrate at times).
His 'method' he has named dutch synthetic reefing in case anyone wants to check it out.
Anyway this method of phosphate removal seems interesting, iron citrate is dirt cheap (I couldn't find it to buy easily but you can make it out of iron sulphate and trisodium citrate from ebay), and the iron phosphate which precipitates is skimmed.
His 'method' he has named dutch synthetic reefing in case anyone wants to check it out.
Anyway this method of phosphate removal seems interesting, iron citrate is dirt cheap (I couldn't find it to buy easily but you can make it out of iron sulphate and trisodium citrate from ebay), and the iron phosphate which precipitates is skimmed.
I took another couple of slides yesterday, I attach the photos of interest. Firstly there seems to be these green cells with clear fibres coming out of them, and second there seemed to be very many of these clear fibres in the thicker 'matting' algae under my immediate problem algae, right against the rock. I scraped the rock to get this sample.
The matting image is not that good, but if you look carefully you can see many many of these clear fibres. I wonder if these can be stained to improve the image.
The last slide I made was of the fragile top layer sucked up with a syringe, but it didnt show much apart from a sludge like material. I couldn't really focus on it, it seemed to have no structure (although it had lots of interesting stuff in it like helical coils which were 'screwing' themselves through the water). Pants replied to my email and said vid 3 was dino as suspected, but was not sure about the smaller cells. He did say he thinks they are the problem though. Although I was not clear on exactly which ones he meant so I have asked him again.
I sent him these photos below, so will see what he says about them. I still feel I have not got a good view of the bulk of the sludge though so will try again today.
The matting image is not that good, but if you look carefully you can see many many of these clear fibres. I wonder if these can be stained to improve the image.
The last slide I made was of the fragile top layer sucked up with a syringe, but it didnt show much apart from a sludge like material. I couldn't really focus on it, it seemed to have no structure (although it had lots of interesting stuff in it like helical coils which were 'screwing' themselves through the water). Pants replied to my email and said vid 3 was dino as suspected, but was not sure about the smaller cells. He did say he thinks they are the problem though. Although I was not clear on exactly which ones he meant so I have asked him again.
I sent him these photos below, so will see what he says about them. I still feel I have not got a good view of the bulk of the sludge though so will try again today.
Attachments
Sorry to triple post but I just remembered a bit of speculation I had. Seeing lots of organisims with these green cells in them, where the larger organisim seemed to be animal like (like the worm / slug in video 4), I wondered if these green cells are dino of some kind, inside larger organisims like zooanthelle live inside corals. Like nano sized corals. I read that some organisims 'eat' zooanthelle in order to incorporate them internally (rather than to digest them, to live on their secretions as they photosynthesise). I did see some worm like things eating the little green cells, and could see the cells inside some of them, although that could be for digesting.
Its complete uneducated speculation however. But if so, perhaps something triggers them to expel their zooanthelle. Or perhaps they secrete something to encourage growth of zooanthelle in the water. I was wondering if this might have anything to do with dino blooms. If the animals encourage the growth of the dinos, then presence of the animals might 'cause' dinos. I doubt it to be honest but the dino blooms seem hard to explain so its just another bit of speculation.
Its complete uneducated speculation however. But if so, perhaps something triggers them to expel their zooanthelle. Or perhaps they secrete something to encourage growth of zooanthelle in the water. I was wondering if this might have anything to do with dino blooms. If the animals encourage the growth of the dinos, then presence of the animals might 'cause' dinos. I doubt it to be honest but the dino blooms seem hard to explain so its just another bit of speculation.
