Dinoflagellates.
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karimwassef
Active member
I don't think anyone has found evidence that dinos come from TDS in makeup water. Also, between 0.00 and 0.01, that isn't sufficient to cause an outbreak of anything in my experience. I've been running between 0 and 0.02 without any dinos. When I did have dinos, I was overly paranoid about measuring everything... that goodness that's over.
The consensus is that dinos come out of extreme measures to keep a tank too clean, rather than not taking care of the tank. It's generally been an affliction of those who try too hard and end up breaking under dinos.
koral_lover
New member
can anyone recommend a decent UV sterilizer that won't break the bank for a 60 gallon reef? Also pump/flow recommendations that would be good for dinos? I started to feed less to see if the red cotton candy algae would subside, it began to subside, but dinos are reappearing :uhoh3:
I am just trying to figure out the root causes of dino and cyano blooms. I am not going on clean or extra clean tank. Instead of looking for the solution of results, what cause them to start? Any contribution is of course welcome.
Thus, I would give the second line to sand and rocks we are using. There is a very interesting topic here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2497821
However, I do not understand how to get rid of very slowly leaking phosphate from the sand bottom or from the rocks. Randy-Holmes suggests lime water to top off water to participate phosphates and the result of high pH also helps for algae formations. But the phosphate is still sitting over there isn’t it?
Ali.
Thus, I would give the second line to sand and rocks we are using. There is a very interesting topic here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2497821
However, I do not understand how to get rid of very slowly leaking phosphate from the sand bottom or from the rocks. Randy-Holmes suggests lime water to top off water to participate phosphates and the result of high pH also helps for algae formations. But the phosphate is still sitting over there isn’t it?
Ali.
karimwassef
Active member
Cyano and dinos have different causes and different fixes.
My conclusion is that dinos are in every system but are kept under control by the algae that normally occupy that part of the food chain and N, P cycles. When all things are in balance, algae take up excess N and P and dinos can't take over.
Overzealous reef keepers who remove all algae by eliminating either N or P (chemicals, C dosing) create an environment without limits to dinos. Once they take hold, dinos alter the chemistry to keep algae out.
The fix is to decimate their population and reestabliah safe zones for algae to thrive and rebalance the system. This sometimes includes adding N and P back to allow normal algae growth.
My conclusion is that dinos are in every system but are kept under control by the algae that normally occupy that part of the food chain and N, P cycles. When all things are in balance, algae take up excess N and P and dinos can't take over.
Overzealous reef keepers who remove all algae by eliminating either N or P (chemicals, C dosing) create an environment without limits to dinos. Once they take hold, dinos alter the chemistry to keep algae out.
The fix is to decimate their population and reestabliah safe zones for algae to thrive and rebalance the system. This sometimes includes adding N and P back to allow normal algae growth.
Starvin Marvin
New member
Ali,
Just to clarify, are you saying that a TDS meter should be giving results in microsiemens? I always thought it gave results in Total Dissolved Solids Parts Per Million.
Is it possible that a difference of 004 on a TDS meter will cause nuisance Algae issues?
By the time the RO comes out of my Tubing, it is approx 6 PPM TDS.
After it sits in the bucket for days, it usually is 8-11 PPM TDS.
Thank you for clarifying.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
africangrey
Active member
I think this will help you to be familiarized with mohms or microsiemen for ultra pure water, or water for injection. Not sure if we need this kind of purity.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=898154
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=898154
Water should come out of a RO/DI setup at 0 ppm TDS. Once carbon dioxide and other compounds start entering it, the TDS will rise. That's not important as long as the containers are food-grade and not contaminated.
A TDS above zero out of a RO/DI unit means that the DI is shot:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.htm
That article has more on what happens then.
A TDS above zero out of a RO/DI unit means that the DI is shot:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.htm
That article has more on what happens then.
Hello Steve,
Looking at the link of Randey Holmes:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.htm
We read this:
"œMonitor the DI resins by measuring the effluent's conductivity, either with an inline meter (set to its most sensitive level), or by measuring the effluent manually. If you are using a TDS or conductivity meter, then the measured value should drop to near zero, or maybe 0-1 ppm TDS or 0-1 mS/cm. Higher values indicate that something is not functioning properly, or that the DI resin is becoming saturated and needs replacement. That does not necessarily mean, however, that 2 ppm TDS water is not OK to use. But beware that the flow of impurities and the conductivity may begin to rise fairly sharply when the resin becomes saturated. Do not agonize over 1 ppm versus zero ppm. While pure water has a TDS well below 1 ppm, uncertainties from carbon dioxide in the air (which gets into the water and ionizes to provide some conductivity; about 0.7 mS/cm for saturation with normal levels of CO2, possibly higher indoors) and the conductivity/TDS meter itself may yield results of 1 or 2 ppm even from totally pure water by not being exactly zeroed properly. Also note that the first impurities to leave the DI resin as it becomes saturated may be things that you are particularly concerned with (such as ammonia if your water supply uses chloramine or silica if there is a lot in the source water)."
The difference "“apart from what they are- with TDS Meter and Conductivity Meter is simple: The probe is the same for conductivity and salinity, but for salinity readings a correction factor is applied to the conductivity value. The correction factor takes the conductivity reading and converts it to ppm of NaCl (table salt). Salts, minerals, and even dissolved gases contribute uniformly to the conductivity of a solution. This means that the conductivity can be used as an indicator of the amount of dissolved materials in a solution. TDS can be used fairly accurately when determining the concentration of a single salt, such as NaCl, but error can arise when trying to compare two different types of solutions.
So, in short I would offer a conductivity meter and to read 000 micro Siemens.
Returning back to "œcause" of cyane and dino blooms (yes, I know the differences..) I put sand bottom and rocks slowly and continuously leaking phosphate, I am wondering whether there is any method to get aware of this? Apart from limewater or water changes? May be this:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2582403
Meaning we might rinse sand and/or rock with such a product "“like a cure for 20 days- and then with RO water and then put it to the tank?
Would you offer any product "“at this moment- for this purpose Bertoni?
Looking at the link of Randey Holmes:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.htm
We read this:
"œMonitor the DI resins by measuring the effluent's conductivity, either with an inline meter (set to its most sensitive level), or by measuring the effluent manually. If you are using a TDS or conductivity meter, then the measured value should drop to near zero, or maybe 0-1 ppm TDS or 0-1 mS/cm. Higher values indicate that something is not functioning properly, or that the DI resin is becoming saturated and needs replacement. That does not necessarily mean, however, that 2 ppm TDS water is not OK to use. But beware that the flow of impurities and the conductivity may begin to rise fairly sharply when the resin becomes saturated. Do not agonize over 1 ppm versus zero ppm. While pure water has a TDS well below 1 ppm, uncertainties from carbon dioxide in the air (which gets into the water and ionizes to provide some conductivity; about 0.7 mS/cm for saturation with normal levels of CO2, possibly higher indoors) and the conductivity/TDS meter itself may yield results of 1 or 2 ppm even from totally pure water by not being exactly zeroed properly. Also note that the first impurities to leave the DI resin as it becomes saturated may be things that you are particularly concerned with (such as ammonia if your water supply uses chloramine or silica if there is a lot in the source water)."
The difference "“apart from what they are- with TDS Meter and Conductivity Meter is simple: The probe is the same for conductivity and salinity, but for salinity readings a correction factor is applied to the conductivity value. The correction factor takes the conductivity reading and converts it to ppm of NaCl (table salt). Salts, minerals, and even dissolved gases contribute uniformly to the conductivity of a solution. This means that the conductivity can be used as an indicator of the amount of dissolved materials in a solution. TDS can be used fairly accurately when determining the concentration of a single salt, such as NaCl, but error can arise when trying to compare two different types of solutions.
So, in short I would offer a conductivity meter and to read 000 micro Siemens.
Returning back to "œcause" of cyane and dino blooms (yes, I know the differences..) I put sand bottom and rocks slowly and continuously leaking phosphate, I am wondering whether there is any method to get aware of this? Apart from limewater or water changes? May be this:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2582403
Meaning we might rinse sand and/or rock with such a product "“like a cure for 20 days- and then with RO water and then put it to the tank?
Would you offer any product "“at this moment- for this purpose Bertoni?
karimwassef
Active member
Reducing phosphates for cyano is ok, but for dinos it isn't. For dinos, you actually need phosphates.
My best solution to reduce N and P is an algae scrubber.
My best solution to reduce N and P is an algae scrubber.
Exactly my experience. Had dinos only once in my 7 years of reefing, soon after I started to dose vodka to keep my water "cleaner"
http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/c...1-4B2D-8505-9623278EA2A0_zpsd2hdfdzv.mp4.html
Hopefully this link works. It's a video. I'm hoping it's not Dino's.
Hopefully this link works. It's a video. I'm hoping it's not Dino's.
Can't pull up the video...
