Dispar with Lyretail Anthias?

[Gary Majchrzak]

I'm introducing four Dispar Anthias to my 225 reef aquarium. These same four fish are currently being held in QT with three (female) Lyretail Anthias (which Dispar Anthias sometimes associate with in the ocean).
Right now there is no aggression- but I'm concerned that might change as soon as one squammy turns male. Will there be problems or should I just add the Dispar and pass on the Lyretails?

 

[SDguy]

I have noticed no physical aggression from my lyretails to my other anthias. However, I will say that the colors of my other species are not as vibrant, while the lyretails are gorgeous. Coincidence? Can't prove anything, but I think the presence is enough. Granted, my tank is half your size...

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Peter- do you have a male Lyretail? Do you think your Lyretails are eating the majority of foods offered?

 

[SDguy]

Yes, one of my female lyretails totally changed to male. The other anthias eat just as much as the lyretails.

Some interesting points which lead me to my previous statement:

1. My female bartlett and dispar look great...what I would say normal, vibrant color.

2. My male bartletts (two of them, not sure how that happened) have gradually become more and more pale. At first I thought it was because there were two. But they have both grown equally pale. They still interact the same with the female, and eat with gusto, but are just pale, even though more and more purple is showing in the head region. And no caudal trailers to speak of, even after so many months.

3. My male dispar showed fantastic color, but he was also king of the anthias (first one introduced) and even fought with my tang.

So, I think just the presence of the lyretails is having an effect...without actual physical aggression.

Now that I'm down to only one dispar (Ugh, don't ask) I may just get a couple more lyretail/bartlett fermales, and see what happens...

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Peter- I was looking through your photo gallery. Nice pix.
Do your Lyretails bother Fairy/Flasher Wrasses at all? It appears that your Dispars don't.
I have several smaller Wrasses in my aquarium.

 

[SDguy]

None of my anthias pay any attention to my wrasses.

 

[SDguy]

Some recent pics:

Male lyretail:

And the male bartlett (left) and female (right). Even though the male has more purple, it is actually more pale than the female...

 

[bradleyj]

Great pictures Peter, How do you get your fish to let you take such clear pictures of them? Hypnotism? LOL I cant get a good clear pic of mine.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I see no mention anywhere of Bartlett's (naturally) associating with Lyretails.
Maybe that's part of the problem with your fading male Bartlett's- perhaps it's a dominance related thing. (Purely speculation on my part- I wish I knew the answer.)

I've had Lyretails in the past. They get fairly large. They require more food per fish per day than a Dispar or Bartlett's.

What would be a better combo...
Dispar and Lyretails or Dispar and Bartlett's?

 

[SDguy]

I would think dispars and bartletts would fare better together.

There is a website that lists common mixing of anthias species...let me see if I can find it...

Hmmm, can't recall where I saw that info. But I did find this pic while searching....wouldn't you just give one of your kidneys for a scene like this in your tank :eek1: :eek1:

 

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9085592#post9085592 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bradleyj
Great pictures Peter, How do you get your fish to let you take such clear pictures of them? Hypnotism? LOL I cant get a good clear pic of mine.

You don't see the dozens and dozens of blurry orange and pink smears that end up on the cutting room floor, as it were

 

[SDguy]

Gary, just to update you. I was looking through some older pics of my anthias today. My bartlett definitely were growing caudal streamers back when the lyretail male just changed. They all distinctly lack streamers now. Still though, I've never seen any physical contact/aggression. I'll post the pic tonight when I get home.

Do you think it is simply from visual cues, or perhaps even chemical?

 

[Chooch1]

SDguy,

In the picture with the shoal of anthias are those female barletts or tuka? They look like tuka or maybe evansi to me. I agree that that would be an amazing scene in a reef tank but I'm not sure I would give my kidney. Maybe we'll be able to replicate that scene in captivity someday as we gain more knowledge about keeping this challenging fish family.

As far as your male bartletts reverting I suspect its either chemical or hormonal ques rather than actual physical contact. I was thinking of adding lyretails to my existing 4 bartletts but your experience is definitely giving me second thoughts. Please keep us posted.

 

[SDguy]

Those are dispar and tuka in that pic.

Yes, I will keep you updated with what happens with my males as time goes on....

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9112872#post9112872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDguy
Do you think it is simply from visual cues, or perhaps even chemical?

I don't know, but I've introduced some Dispar and left the Lyretails at the store.

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9112872#post9112872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDguy

Do you think it is simply from visual cues, or perhaps even chemical?

Visual and behavioral IMHO, fwiw. Chemical is possible, but to me it seems like that wouldn't be practical in the wild. It has been shown that some chemicals in the water can inhibit testosterone, though.

Better watch out guys! Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water....

Nice pics, Peter! Actually gorgeous pics!

 

[SDguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9116984#post9116984 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
Visual and behavioral IMHO, fwiw. Chemical is possible, but to me it seems like that wouldn't be practical in the wild. It has been shown that some chemicals in the water can inhibit testosterone, though.

Better watch out guys! Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water....

Nice pics, Peter! Actually gorgeous pics!

Who knew I should wear a ziplock cup when I go swimming in the ocean :lol:

So here's a pic of my bartletts (female is top right) just about the time the lyretail was changing (visible in the pic too)...sorry it's washed out...the flash went off. But you can see the trailers starting....and they were just more "confident" looking. Not the case for the males now. And I just checked...the smaller male has completely lost the yellow bar down his flank (not sure why they're not visible in this pic)...can they revert to female? Is this possible? Was it never a true male?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Very interesting for sure!

 

[SDguy]

Just wanted to update. It seems the addition of a single small bartlett anthias (indeterminate sex) and TINY female lyretail (seriously, looks like an orange tadpole ) changed the entire dynamics of the group. My bartlett large male has regained striking color, as the female has always had. No streamers on the tail yet though. He leaves the other male bartlett alone.

Perhaps with more females to keep the males occupied, they intimidate each other less.

Gary, how are your dispars?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Thanks for the update. Very interesting, IMO.

My dispar are doing fine. No fish is dominent yet and all four still appear to be juveniles.