Diving with ricordea and zooanthids in Florida

Rossini said:
I cant belive the amount of you guys that want to collect from reefs. No wonder all the reefs are wrecked in the US.
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Why is this guy in the hobby? Thanks for notifying me that ALL the reefs in the US are wrecked? There is a tree in your back yard that needs a good hug!
 
Ill agree that rossini's statement is very incorrect. The destruction he is referring too is not caused by collections. What is causing the destruction of reef habitats is ocean acidification, global warming, dredging, and other large scale occurrences.

Also, as someone else mentioned, it is easy to swim right past zoos and ricordeas without noticing them because they dont stand out in a reef environment. I find millions of zoos in the most random places that nobody would even bother to look. Get your face about a foot away from the rocks and you will start noticing things you otherwise would not.

Refering back to post #19 or so asking why longspine sea urchins are illegal to harvest. It is because longspine sea urchins are considered to be a keystone species in carribean reefs. In 1983-4 the was a mass kill of these urchins causing the reefs of the carribean to change from coral dominant to algae dominant. It turns out that the tiny biomass that these urchins made up of the entire reef systems were keeping the entire system in balance. Through their grazing efforts that were keeping the algae off the corals enough to allow corals to be dominant. Now that the urchins have made a comeback the reefs have not seemed to switch back to coral dominant. It is believed that there is a threshhold that needs to be reached before they will switch back. That is why we cant collect them, we need them to do their jobs at removing algae so the damage can be undone.
 
Join a local Reef/marine aquarium club. Mine has a collection trip planned each year in and around Ft Desoto. Loads of shrimp, gobies, stars,snail, hermits, etc. near shore, but haven't really looked for softies...will do on my next trip as I go out there or Honeymoon Island at least once a month.
 
I am not willing to give up my favorite spots, but I am more than willing to join people on an exploratory mission to find new collection spots. After all that is how I found mine...
 
it really is! you give them up and next time you go there its destroyed or covered in people... now I am willing to do gps trades with people...
 
huricaneredbone said:
Ill agree that rossini's statement is very incorrect. The destruction he is referring too is not caused by collections. What is causing the destruction of reef habitats is ocean acidification, global warming, dredging, and other large scale occurrences.

Also, as someone else mentioned, it is easy to swim right past zoos and ricordeas without noticing them because they dont stand out in a reef environment. I find millions of zoos in the most random places that nobody would even bother to look. Get your face about a foot away from the rocks and you will start noticing things you otherwise would not.

Refering back to post #19 or so asking why longspine sea urchins are illegal to harvest. It is because longspine sea urchins are considered to be a keystone species in carribean reefs. In 1983-4 the was a mass kill of these urchins causing the reefs of the carribean to change from coral dominant to algae dominant. It turns out that the tiny biomass that these urchins made up of the entire reef systems were keeping the entire system in balance. Through their grazing efforts that were keeping the algae off the corals enough to allow corals to be dominant. Now that the urchins have made a comeback the reefs have not seemed to switch back to coral dominant. It is believed that there is a threshhold that needs to be reached before they will switch back. That is why we cant collect them, we need them to do their jobs at removing algae so the damage can be undone.
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Lets not also forget all the wonderful pesticides and fertilizer run off - since everyone in Florida seems to want to have their own rose garden.

In my completely unscientific opinion I'm pretty sure corals don't react well to pesticides.

On another note... I'm willing to go help collect with someone and learn the tricks... No idea how that person managed to get all those jawfish in a jar.
 
Rossini said:
I cant belive the amount of you guys that want to collect from reefs. No wonder all the reefs are wrecked in the US.
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Why shouldn't we ask: "I can't believe the amount you guys in the UK fish out of the ocean. No wonder the ocean is wrecked around the UK."

The answer is AWAYS conservation - as defined by "wise use". You can sustainably harvest hard wood from the rain forest, fish from the ocean, coral from the reef... if you do so wisely and sustainably. The causes of physical destruction of reefs in Florida:

#1 Environmental. Water warming and hurricanes.
#2 Land-based environment degradation. Development - particularly of harbors, and ocean fill for causeways and artificial islands.
#3 Non sustainable ocean activities. Commercial fishing with drag nets, oil drilling, commercial shipping and shipwrecks.

I could go on. Did you know that 2/3rd's of the island of Key West is made from coral boulder landfill in the last 100 years? That is about 4 SQUARE MILES of rock fill. Assuming 20' of fill, and an average marine aquarium uses 3 cubic feet of live rock, that would be enough coral rock to provide live rock for 737 MILLION reef tanks.

How about the Overseas Highway? It's a 127 mile long stretch of road that was originally built as a railroad bed over the Keys and long stretches of open ocean. It required millions of tons of rock fill. It has since been rebuilt in the 1980's, and the old roadbed was not adequate so a NEW road was built parallel to the old one, destroying hundreds of MORE miles of reef floor.

Use Google maps to survey the West Coast of Florida, particularly around Fort Meyers, or Tampa. How much of the original mangrove and swamps remain? How much is artificial coast and/or artificial harbor requiring fill and / or excavation?

I find it sadly amusing that people think reef keepers are one of the primary reason that Florida reefs are suffering. One ship running aground in the Intercoastal Waterway (which runs directly through prime reef habitat) does more damage than thousands of reefers with their sustainable collection.
 
BonsaiNut said:
Did you know that 2/3rd's of the island of Key West is made from coral boulder landfill in the last 100 years? That is about 4 SQUARE MILES of rock fill. Assuming 20' of fill, and an average marine aquarium uses 3 cubic feet of live rock, that would be enough coral rock to provide live rock for 737 MILLION reef tanks.

How about the Overseas Highway? It's a 127 mile long stretch of road that was originally built as a railroad bed over the Keys and long stretches of open ocean. It required millions of tons of rock fill. It has since been rebuilt in the 1980's, and the old roadbed was not adequate so a NEW road was built parallel to the old one, destroying hundreds of MORE miles of reef floor.

Use Google maps to survey the West Coast of Florida, particularly around Fort Meyers, or Tampa. How much of the original mangrove and swamps remain? How much is artificial coast and/or artificial harbor requiring fill and / or excavation?
Click to expand...

I'd very much like to know your sources for this information. First off, the waters around Key West are anywhere from 2-6 feet deep except at the harbor which is dredged. So, how do we have 20 feet of fill when the islands highest point is only about 3-4 feet above sea level. And 2/3's really, that number is way off base!

As for Fort Myers (one "e") and Tampa, you have a little better point. Much of the mangroves around the barrier islands is gone and much of the coastal swampland is developed. But, it is now illegal to remove mangroves and fill swamps. Two of the biggest west coast restoration projects are mangrove restoration and oyster reef restoration. Never hear about those (unless you live here). Could more be done?...yes absolutely. But to imply nothing is being done is very wrong!

With regards to your roadbed statement, again way off!!!! The roadbed was built on top of the old railroad bed. Some of the bridges were inadequate and parallel bridges were built. Namely at Channel #5 by Islamorada, Spanish Harbor and Seven Mile Bridge. Most of the bridges were just replaced where they were. Many of the short bridges were only relocated a matter of feet and are now fishing piers. And for the record, the old RR bridges still in place are some of the best artificial reefs in the Keys! So, 100 of miles of reef floor is very wrong. Besides, where they were built, not much reef! Lots of mud and grass flats though.
 
I think this thread has gotten way off topic and we should attempt to bring it back to the topic it was intended for.

As for the comments:

Reefs4u you are right about the pesticides, there is plenty of primary literature about pesticides and nutrients effects on reefs. Just do a search on google scholar if you want tomlearn more.

Bonsainut: i think your facts are a little off though your rationale seems good. Most recent renovations and marine construction projects are required to submit an assessment of potential environmental impacts, if the impacts are great then the project is turned down. Unfortunately the destruction of marine environments is mostly caused by industries and people who seem to think their activity has no effect on the oceans... But remember every ecosystem is connected, everyones activities has effects on the ocean...

Jdhuyvetter: glad to see someone getting the facts straight. Right your are: more can be done, but to say nothing is being done is just ignorant.

So who wants to go collect something cool one of these days?
 
Honestly, considering all of the fish/inverts that die in this hobby while being shipped and everything else before we see them, I think we are doing the ocean a favor by collecting our own vs. buying them from the lfs/online.

On topic, I'd love to be able to collect my own corals. You all are so lucky :)
 
Saw two very nice large colonies of orange rics last weekend. However, it was in Pennekamp so I had to behave and not take any.
 
Did a shore dive at a new spot today. The reefs were gorgeous! Didn't find a any ricordeas on this reef but i found some very nice palythoa grandis and some other green zoanthids. Once they open up fully ill post some pictures
 
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