DIY LEDs - The write-up

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have any of you seen or have knowledge on the differences between the Cree Q4 and Q5 whites?
I know the Q5s are brighter, but by what %?
I just built an array with 12 royal blues and 12 Q4s and the the total output is really blue. Definitely more like a 20K MH if not more blue.
 
At 350mA, the specified difference is 7 - 14%. That is, the Q4 is 100 - 107 lumens, and the Q5 is 107 - 114 lumens. So, on average, 7%, but maximum 14% difference. At 700 - 1000 mA, there aren't published ranges for each bin, but you can extrapolate upwards from there (minus a few percent due to lower efficiency at higher current, I'm sure.)

Also keep in mind that one thing we are nearly ignoring in this thread is the color bin applied to each batch of LEDs that Cree manufacture. We are typically using the "cool white" product, which can be broken into 14 or so different color bins! The difference between one extreme and another can be pretty large.

Unfortunately, most vendors focus on the brightness bin and don't provide us with the color bin, though some do provide an order code (part of the model number) which can be interpreted into a range of color bins. Luckily, the few times I've gotten cool white XR-E LEDs from the usual sources, they've all been in pretty mild, neutral color bins near the middle of the spectrum (WG, WC, some WM). The differences between these common bins can be interpreted as a few hundred K, so it won't make a huge difference. Most of these bins are right around 6500k. However, if you ended up with a WK bin, it would make a very large impact - this bin can stretch to around 10kk, and is at the more purple end of that range, so it'll look more significant paired with royal blue LEDs.

I think it's also important to consider that some people in this thread who are running a 50/50 split of cool white and royal blue are running the whites at 1000mA and the blues at 700mA, which will make a very large difference. In fact, going back to the origin, that's what Soundwave was running.

Another consideration is purely the way we observe colors and talk about them in the reefkeeping hobby. The concept of degrees kelvin indicating a particular color is a pretty weak concept, and gets worse "off center." So if you have a color bin of LED that's above or below the BBL, it's no wonder you are struggling to describe it in reefkeeping terms.

Extending that train of thought, LEDs are far more pure light sources than anything else we use in the hobby. White MH and fluorescent bulbs tend to produce very spiky light in terms of wavelength, whereas LEDs tend to produce a very clean curve that has a nice hump right at a designed location. Hence, though an LED array and an MH rig might appear to produce similar color light to the naked eye in experimental conditions, once you put them over a tank, the appearance of the tank might vary significantly.

So, yeah, turn down your blues a bit and you'll get something whiter. :D
 
Uh, yeah! With plenty of light to spare @ 700mA

It's hard to translate from one form of lighting to another, but so far results seem to indicate that LEDs are about 70 - 80% better than MH or really good T5, and maybe 100% better than the best PC, in terms of watts:output.

6 of these LEDs at 700mA is around 18 watts. You can expect that to perform about the same as 31 watts of MH or T5, or about the same as 36 watts of PC.

Again though, it's hard to do this math in a truly accurate fashio, (too many variables - how are we measuring output, reflectors or optics, ballast or driver efficiency, make and model of bulb, etc.) but this should give you a rough guide.
 
Hello all. I've made a couple of things out of XPE's, wall warts and buck pucks with success.

I'm going to be building a full size light for my 75 our of these:

http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+XPG

..and i'm thinking about either using less to cut down on costs or using more to get more light output. What would you guys do?

I'm also considering using sharper optics and raising the fixture higher up off the tank (like a couple feet) so that I don't have to shield it from salt spray. Thoughts on this?
 
Personally, I'd keep the LED count similar and run at a lower current. This will give you even more efficiency (efficiency decreases as current increases), more even coverage, and longer life. The only tradeoff is slightly higher upfront costs.

If you've got some of your wall wart units lying around, I'd just suggest playing with different optics on those. Once you get below 40 degrees or so, the beam becomes very tight. Raising the unit would help some with this, but still, you're ending up with very unidirectional light. That would be OK, if you plan for it. For instance, corals lower down in the tank will be very dramatically shaded by higher corals directly over them. Overall, there will be less "random" light bouncing around. This could be a good thing or a bad thing, but it's definitely something you should think about.
 
Right, I wasn't thinking about that shadow effect. I have carclo wide optics and carclo medium (i think) to tinker with right now. This cutter place has a much different selection though. They have stuff that looks a lot like the optics used in the solaris fixtures. Has anyone tried using reflectors with LED? I have 2 6 sided 20" polished aluminum reflectors for CF lamps just sitting there collecting dust... hmmmm... :idea:
 
Thanks for the info macht.
It sounds like if I want to keep my conservative settings (cool whites at 700mA), I should do a 1:2 ratio of blue to whites to get a more "balanced" viewing color.
 
IMHO reflectors are a poor choice for a really sharp point source like LED. By the time you've bounced the light around enough times to get it oriented in the direction you want, you've lost of significant portion. With large point sources (MH lamps) or distributed sources (fluorescent lamps) you don't have much of a choice, since optics that big would be hundreds of dollars a pop. With LEDs, we have the opportunity to use optics cheaply, so we might as well.

The shadow effect caused by the light being highly directional is just something you'll have to design around. Either angle some of the LEDs, or plan your aquascape carefully.

In the large tank I'm about to break ground on, a few of the LED banks will be angled (either permanently, or on actuators so I can change the angle) to help mitigate the directional nature of the LED lighting. Plus, this will open up an interesting realm of design possibility. Instead of just having "sunrise" be a gradual increase in light, we can model the directional nature by having the first few banks of LEDs that turn on in the morning be at shallow angle across the surface of the tank.

Go look at photos of natural reefs in calm waters at any time besides noon - the sense of drama created by angled shafts of light is impressive. This is something that has been hard to create to date, but will be easy with LEDs and relatively narrow optics.

So, rather than try to design out the directional nature of the light, I hope people choose to embrace it in a creative manner.
 
Thanks for the info macht.
It sounds like if I want to keep my conservative settings (cool whites at 700mA), I should do a 1:2 ratio of blue to whites to get a more "balanced" viewing color.

Yeah, or something in between - 1:2 cool white:royal blue is a lot more white than you have now and might be a touch too white. You mentioned driving the whites at 700mA, what are you driving your blues at? If you currently have lots of LEDs laying around with each color on dedicated drivers, just play with different ratios. It's gonna vary from person to person and rig to rig.

For instance, I have a nano-sized LED rig that's 6 cool white Rebels and 2 royal blue XR-E. It's not as yellow as it might sound, but only because the cool white Rebels are a little cooler than most of the XR-E people are using. I'd say it's roughly equivalent to an average 10kk MH lamp. Meanwhile, people elsewhere in this thread have suggested that 1:1 is a good color. So, clearly, there is some variation and people should experiment to make sure they get what they want rather than just take some formula for granted.
 
Interesting idea! I'm not getting that creative. I'm jsut going for the old duck/dawn trick having the whites and blues in separate banks on separate timers.

I think having the front row or two of LED's angled towards the back corner of the tank would get rid of shadowing nicely, however that will result in the stuff getting salty meaning I'll have to shield it and wipe it off all the time, creating more work and lowering efficiency. hrm..
 
I am driving the blues at 700mA as well. These Q4 "Cool whites" don't seem to have any hint of yellow, unlike your average 10k MH bulb.
 
Did you get a full model number or ordering code with your LEDs? It sounds like you might have a rather blue color bin. Not a bad thing, just something you'll have to work with.
 
the Cree part number listed is XREWHT-L1-0000-00C01.
I wonder if underdriving them puts out less yellow...
 
The color will shift slightly at different currents, but I doubt it's playing in to this at all. Plus, technically, you are still overdriving them, since the spec'd current is 350mA.

Unfortunately the 00C01 order code is wide open in terms of which color bins it might be, so you *might* have something a little off.
 
Forgive me if this has been asked already in this massive thread, but.... I have a question I would be interested in hearing an answer to:

Why couldnt One use a standard 100W or 300W Malibu transformer to power your LED arrays? Vs all these expensive hard to wire drivers/pucks/etc..

I dont see why one couldnt safely power around 300 1W LED's using this ONE single transformer? Even if you used 3.7V HO emitters that still gives you about 100 of those to power?

The voltages are safer due to the fact that unlike AC drivers, you dont need to bring 120V out and up to the fixture.. From the TRANSFORMER you have only 12V going out. The transformer simply plugs into any standard outlet too, and its waterproof.

They are inexpensive, water proof, some are dimmable, they have timers, they are DESIGNED to run Low Voltage lighting for exterior landscaping. They have the higher Wattages avaiable due to the fact they are designed to power typical 20-50W Halogen bulbs in fixtures.

I would like to provide an external link but dont want to get banned.. Just look up "Malibu Transformers" LHS have them.. Some are even dimmable on the tranformer which could be handy

4146M7EPYPL._SL500_AA280_.jpg


Maybe there is downside to using these, but I cannot think of one immediately and am curious to get some backfeed on this idea.

Also I read you can mix WATTAGES with this transformer, so woudlnt that mean you could install 1W and 3W emitters, along the same array/wiring with little or no problems? Thats another question I have.

Because I have used a 100W Malibu transformer to install some small less than 1W LED's into some colored globes, and on the SAME LV wire, at the end, I installed 3ea x 1W HO LED spot lights and they seemed to all work fine on the same LV wire?
 
Algaenator, I'm not intimately familiar with that sort of device, so I have some reading to do.

But on the surface, I would doubt that they can directly drive LEDs. All LEDs, but especially high power LEDs, require very specific conditions to operate correctly. Mostly, they need a constant current source, whereas most DC transformers/power supplies are essentially constant voltage (at best).

In operating ranges, an LED is essentially a short circuit. That is, once supplied with anything above a very low threshold voltage, the LED will pull as much current as it can get. Hence, if you wire a 3w LED directly to a voltage source, it'll either blow itself up, or trip the overcurrent/overvoltage/overtemp limits on the power source.

Just some food for thought. Driving LEDs doesn't have to be complicated or expensive, it just has to be done in a manner appropriate to LEDs - and since they operate in a vastly different way than other types of lighting, it's not likely that drivers intended for other types of lighting will work for LED.
 
Ya come to think of it, I meant to say that the 1W - 12V AC/DC LED's Spotlights had their own mini drivers too, so I think we are back to mini drivers powered by AC converting to DC... However I read the LED's in the LV spotlights for landscaping, can run on either 12V AC or 12V DC it appears.

Mmmm Low Voltage AC.. I Thought they convered/transformed 120AC to DC 12V? But it appears you are right. I Wonder if the Mini Drivers in the LED spotlights I used, converted the 12V AC coming off the Transformer to 12v DC? Or that driver with that particular LED emitter could use either?


This Transformer will power those LED floodlights however, I know, because, I have used them with the 1W LED's, but maybe only because the the LED's had a small unique disc/driver under the emitters?

I will post some pix of the LED floodlights im talking about and get a name..
 
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Some of those units you are referring to have rectifier front ends so you can feed them AC or DC of either polarity and they will still have only DC reach the LED.

You can also run LEDs with AC but you have to jump thru a bunch of hoops. Ultimately they are far less efficient when run via 60Hz AC. You will need far more of them to get the same lumens delivered. This ends up making the system bigger and probably more expensive than just using 'pucks'.
 
Interesting idea! I'm not getting that creative. I'm jsut going for the old duck/dawn trick having the whites and blues in separate banks on separate timers.

I think having the front row or two of LED's angled towards the back corner of the tank would get rid of shadowing nicely, however that will result in the stuff getting salty meaning I'll have to shield it and wipe it off all the time, creating more work and lowering efficiency. hrm..

What kind of powerheads do you use in your tank or turbulence on the surface? I have one MP40W turned up 70% roughly about 4 inches from the surface in lagoon mode and my fixture is about 7 inches off the water with no salt spray yet. I have been monitoring it weekly, but I'm not imagining that it will be a problem....however, a piece of acrylic from Lowes will fix that problem in the future if need be.
 
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