DIY LEDs - The write-up

[S2minute]

Great thread - incredibly helpful! Unfortunately, I don't trust my handiwork when it comes to electicity and water. I am curious though - Now that you folks pioneered amazing work and researched parts all the way to end of the Internet, what commercial LED fixture company do you think makes the best lights by performance & value for SPS?

Shallow, you do realize how many of us, ME included did not trust our own handywork? There`s a TON of us but, SOME of us actually built a DIY lighthood and SOME MORE of us are getting ready to do just that...ME included. WHY?? cause we CAN, and we read,ask...and LEARN. It comes quicker to some than others but, we are gonna do it .What are the results?? LED light hoods that are2-3x are powerful than the commerical ones AND 2-3x cheaper. Also, the satisfaction that you went and did something you never thought you could do. That there are people on this fourm that give you more attention and put up with more stupid questions, than any comm. light fixture company Tech EVER would. Why?, because they actually give a damn about fellow reefers that want to TRY to be adventurous and succeed in this hobby. Yeah, that`s my thankyou to you guys out there that are there for people like us....like Dfason!! I`m gathering my parts now. I just got back my weilded Aluminum frame 72" and each end is bent at 15 degree angles at the 2` mark.

 

[S2minute]

Leds

Leds

I got ahold of an XM-L. I fed 700mA to it and was suitably impressed. Make that VERY impressed.

Besides the crazy amount of light - 260 lumens - that it spewed, I was impressed by the fact that I could hold it in my fingers without it getting noticeably warm. This means that if you ran XM-Ls at 700mA you could use a really minimal heatsink scheme.

I did screw it to a small stamped heatsink and cranked it up to 2A. That was 650 lumens or about 1/2 a 100W light bulb!! That started to warm up the heatsink a bit.

I'd probably consider 1.5A to be a good working maximum for the XM-Ls. That would still allow fairly lean heatsinking without a concern-able lifetime impact.

I can't see using them without optics though. The wide dispersion of so much light will have a lot of light hitting places it shouldn't.

I dropped some optics on it that included 25, 20, 15, and 5 degrees. They all made a great spot on the ceiling 5 feet above.

Any of those spots would make a great bike light with only the one XM-L. I didn't have any proper optics though. These were for LumiLEDs. They are the plastic cones with a recessed hole that fits down over the LED. They result in just about zero leakage out the sides. Anyway using proper optics and mounting them above the tank a foot or two would be great. You could crank the factors up to maybe 20sqin/LED.

OH GOD NO:spin2: A NEWER type of LED:fun5: just when i was getten used to the other ones.:crazy1:

 

[Teh Noob Reefer]

Whats the price range of store bought vs diy led lighting?

 

[wisewendell]

Widdy; I don't have any Carlo's. I hope you're not saying the XP Carlos hold the optics out forward a lot. That is the total reason these otherwise perfect optics, I have, don't work. Their holder holds them out forward too far.




These XM-Ls are now going to allow one string to use all of the ELN60-48s output effectively.

However it means we can't mix blues in with them anymore. On small builds you could run one ELN for the XMs and maybe run two blue strings in parallel on the other. This would give 33%:67%. Problem is, it may now take 25%:75% XM-L:XP-E. (head scratching)



U-channel is about 3 times better at dumping the heat than square tubing. The "back" side of the tube blocks all the other inside faces from radiating away their heat. That same face stymies all the convection possibilities too.

ShallowWaters; You're really asking in the wrong place. I don't think any of us even care. So we don't really know.

Even with good and proper air movement? My dad builds computers on the side so I have tons of fans and 12v power supplies laying around.

 

[widmer]

So since this thread is all over the place, I figured why not post a couple pictures of the flashlight I just finished building for my dad:

It was a totally broken 1920s-1930s flashlight I picked up for $7.00, dropped in 3x Cree XP-G and circuitry to drive them @ 1,050 mA for ~1,100 lumens. With the Carlco 12.4 FWHM collimators, ultra low iron glass peice and 2x Trustfire rechargeable lithium batteries, it turned out pretty cool. Happy reefing.

 

[kcress]

That's pretty sweet Widdy.

wisewendell; It's very hard to even get good air flow with tubing.

 

[wisewendell]

That's pretty sweet Widdy.

wisewendell; It's very hard to even get good air flow with tubing.

Arg, that bites

 

[S2minute]

What i love to see Widmer... another origional thinker

 

[ShallowWaters]

Thanks ArmanS.
S2minute, I appreciate the DIY encouragement and recognition of the forum. My DIY efforts usually lead to time-consuming maintenance but I'll keep thinking about it.

 

[bourbeaue]

Any one tried hooking up a DIY build to an AI controller ? Wondering what kind of control signal they use ?

 

[agoutihead]

So what's the skinny on these LEDs?

Can you use any kind of LED because there are a lot of companies that sell various LEDs.

Do they have to be a particular color or Kelvin?

I realize that 3W seems to becoming a standard. At least right now.

Also I read somewhere that there was a company that put a patent on reef LED units to monopolize the market.

So what's the case, will we see a lot of new LED fixture startup companies that will hopefully help expand the market and lower the price?

 

[HeneryH]

After running my rig for several weeks I pulled it down to do a little work on it. I noticed that some of the whites (normally a yellow color when not lit) had a black spot in what seemed like the middle of the lens or on the surface of the LED material. Looks like they are burned but they still light.

Anyone ever seen this before? I am only running at 833mA for LEDs rated at 1.5A.

I think I will replace them as a precaution.

 

[widmer]

The only thing I can think of is when soldering an LED for a project, I accidentally nicked the lens with the soldering iron. It didn't discolor the lens, but it did make a small divot that casts a shadow and makes the die appear to have a black spot. There goes 100 lumens :lol:

 

[S2minute]

Leds

Leds

Threw up an Album guys, if you care to pass some time. It shows the tank setup in the very beginnings also the current electric sucking Medusa i`m using...which the ballasts are now failing :hammer:

 

[kcress]

After running my rig for several weeks I pulled it down to do a little work on it. I noticed that some of the whites (normally a yellow color when not lit) had a black spot in what seemed like the middle of the lens or on the surface of the LED material. Looks like they are burned but they still light.

Anyone ever seen this before? I am only running at 833mA for LEDs rated at 1.5A.

I think I will replace them as a precaution.

Hi Henery.

That doesn't sound good.. :eek1:

Some questions if you would be so kind:

How high are they above the tank?

Do they have splash protection?

Have you used that spray sealant on them?

Can you touch the heatsink after an hour of running?

What kind of heatsink are you running?

Have you rechecked the current setting?

What are you using for a driver?

Thanks!

 

[CJO]

So what's the skinny on these LEDs?

Can you use any kind of LED because there are a lot of companies that sell various LEDs.

Possibly, but you need to do your research. Many of us have decided that it's best to use the most efficient LEDs due to their lower heat output and better output at the same energy level. At this point, that is the Cree XP-G, which is about to be superceded by the Cree XM series. There are some other good (efficient) brands out there like Luxeon. There are also some very cheap Chinese ones that you may be able to use, but the density you would need and the cooling requirements makes it impracticable.

Do they have to be a particular color or Kelvin?

This is still an ongoing discussion. Many people (me included) have started with a ratio of royal blue to cool white LEDs. Some people are switching out some or all of the cool white LEDs for neutral white. Others are also experimenting with adding other colors (red, blue, cyan, yellow, warm white, etc.)

I realize that 3W seems to becoming a standard. At least right now.

3W LEDs is really a misnomer, but the ones that are commonly called 3W are the ones that are being used.

Also I read somewhere that there was a company that put a patent on reef LED units to monopolize the market.

So what's the case, will we see a lot of new LED fixture startup companies that will hopefully help expand the market and lower the price?

It's true that there is an aquarium lighting company who has a patent on some of the technology used. They have successfully sued another company out of business but have taken no steps since then. It has been theorized that they are waiting until the other companies become more successful so that they can receive more money from a lawsuit, but right now it's just conjecture.

CJ

 

[agoutihead]

Possibly, but you need to do your research. Many of us have decided that it's best to use the most efficient LEDs due to their lower heat output and better output at the same energy level. At this point, that is the Cree XP-G, which is about to be superceded by the Cree XM series. There are some other good (efficient) brands out there like Luxeon. There are also some very cheap Chinese ones that you may be able to use, but the density you would need and the cooling requirements makes it impracticable.

I get so confused with Cree because there are so many different lines of their LED's I dont understand what the difference between all of the model #'s are.

Well my friend's wife works for a company that buys Korean LED's & they are supposed to be of very high quality, but are used in only commercial or industrial purposes. But they have all kinds of various fixtures & new bulbs all containing LEDs, I'm sure they're working on other variants of LED's at the main factory.

How can I tell if they would work good for reefing?

What exact specs should I be looking for?

They are the yellow jelly looking kind, the real high intensity ones.

Before when LED's came out they were like little bulbs, now they are this kind of jelly... I take it this was a huge advancement in LED technology? What is that yellow jelly actually?

This is still an ongoing discussion. Many people (me included) have started with a ratio of royal blue to cool white LEDs. Some people are switching out some or all of the cool white LEDs for neutral white. Others are also experimenting with adding other colors (red, blue, cyan, yellow, warm white, etc.)

Why are neutral whites now thought to be better over the cool whites? I thought the cool whites were more of a pure white, arent they?

What does adding spectrums of red do? (other than make it more yellow?)

I would be looking for a 20k look...

3W LEDs is really a misnomer, but the ones that are commonly called 3W are the ones that are being used.

Can you explain this a little more? So if they're not 3W, then what are they? Are the 1W, 1W then?

It's true that there is an aquarium lighting company who has a patent on some of the technology used. They have successfully sued another company out of business but have taken no steps since then. It has been theorized that they are waiting until the other companies become more successful so that they can receive more money from a lawsuit, but right now it's just conjecture.

CJ

What is the name of this company & when does their patent expire? I take it the company they sued was Solaris? (Was it the same Solaris that built that awesome glass AIO cube?)

That really sucks and I feel thats bad business. Really shows the greed of some filthy animals. They didnt invent LED's or saltwater fixtures, so they shouldnt be able to patent the entire idea.

We could have a lot more start up companies to help boost the economy coming soon with the LED sector.

They just put a cap on ingenuity.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I get so confused with Cree because there are so many different lines of their LED's I dont understand what the difference between all of the model #'s are.

The datasheets are a good reference. All available on Cree's website.

How can I tell if they would work good for reefing?

What exact specs should I be looking for?

Typically, I would judge LEDs based on three criteria, in this order of importance:

1) Efficacy. For all but royal blue, this is typically measured in lumens per watt. A "good" white LED might be 100 lumens/watt. A REALLY good LED might be 140 lumens/watt. Personally, I wouldn't touch anything lower than these general numbers unless I got the LEDs for next to free and didn't plan on keeping the fixture very long. For royal blue, efficacy is typically measured in terms of radiant flux, i.e. mW/W. A really good royal blue might be 500 mW/W.

2) Color. MOST people consider the "classic" mix to be cool white and royal blue. Most cool white LEDs are somewhere around 6500k, in the bins we typically get. Most royal blue LEDs are in the range of 450 - 460 nm.

3) Appropriate packaging/optic selection/etc to allow for typical implementations. Some LEDs have no native optics, or are packaged in weird sizes, etc.

They are the yellow jelly looking kind, the real high intensity ones.

Before when LED's came out they were like little bulbs, now they are this kind of jelly... I take it this was a huge advancement in LED technology? What is that yellow jelly actually?

I have no idea what you're talking about with respect to yellow jelly, sorry. The class of LEDs that Cree X-Lamps and other commonly used LEDs belong to is typically called HP LEDs, i.e. High Power LEDs. This generally indicates an LED that typically runs over 1W of power, is SMT, and is designed in a way to allow for good thermal management.

Why are neutral whites now thought to be better over the cool whites? I thought the cool whites were more of a pure white, arent they?

What does adding spectrums of red do? (other than make it more yellow?)

I would be looking for a 20k look...

This is all very much personal preference, so you really need to experiment to determine what's best for you. Some people find that the "classic" mix of royal blue and cool white is a little washed-out looking, so some people are adding other colors into the mix.

Can you explain this a little more? So if they're not 3W, then what are they? Are the 1W, 1W then?

Don't get hung up on naming HP LEDs in terms of power dissipation. No respectable manufacturer does so, with good reason. A given HP LED might be run over a very wide range of power levels depending on the application or environnent. For instance, a Cree XP-G might be operating at 1W in one fixture, and 5W in another. Calling it a "three watt" LED is hence rather inappropriate.

 

[wld1783]

Hi Henery.

That doesn't sound good.. :eek1:

Some questions if you would be so kind:

How high are they above the tank?

Do they have splash protection?

Have you used that spray sealant on them?

Can you touch the heatsink after an hour of running?

What kind of heatsink are you running?

Have you rechecked the current setting?

What are you using for a driver?

Thanks!

+1

I have had the same thing running 12 XPG with a 1.3mA ELN 60-48D. I later tested the drivers and they were putting out much more than 1.3mA so I replaced the LEDs and dialed the driver down to 1000mA.

If the driver is adjustable and states 1.3 mA or more, still measure and adjust it. To qoute a great guy...

"Trust but verify"

Bill

 

[TheFishMan65]

Gee I expected more pages since I have been gone. Come on DFason what did you fix? Here is what I got working - finally.

With front back angling by group

and individual left right.

I currently have it running about 18 inches over the tank with 60 degrees optics on the center 8 LEDs. I think (we all know how well the eye works) this is about the same intensity I had from four flourescents. I will slowly add optics over time to increase intensity.

50/50 XR-E Royal Blue and XR-E Cool white at 500 ma.