I am going to use DIY rock that I have made. So I am not sure if live sand is enough to cycle the tank with. Or if I should add 1-2 small cocktail shrimps to the tank. I have a 24 Gallon Aquapod, what do you think would be the best way to cycle this tank WITHOUT LR
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DIY live rock. So how do I cycle?
- Thread starter danoreef
- Start date
Hi Dano
When I setup my 20 gallon I had a lot of DIY + dead rock in the tank. I got a couple of pounds of LR and seeded the dead and DIY rock and let them cycle. I must caution you that seeding DIY and dead rock takes a long time and one can never be 100% sure if your dead rock is live or not. I waited till I saw first signs of life (pods, worms, and coraline algae) on my dead and DIY rock before I added any fish. And this process took me 2.5-3 months. So patience is the key to sucess. Good luck
V
When I setup my 20 gallon I had a lot of DIY + dead rock in the tank. I got a couple of pounds of LR and seeded the dead and DIY rock and let them cycle. I must caution you that seeding DIY and dead rock takes a long time and one can never be 100% sure if your dead rock is live or not. I waited till I saw first signs of life (pods, worms, and coraline algae) on my dead and DIY rock before I added any fish. And this process took me 2.5-3 months. So patience is the key to sucess. Good luck
V
kathainbowen
New member
Definitely patience, and definitely be sure to start with a bit of liverock to get some coraline and good stuff in your tank.
If you want to give things a boost, there's always commercial products like TLC for Saltwater to put a jumpstart on your bacteria colony. And there's also products like PurpleUp to increase the growth of coraline algae. However, if you can be patient, give it some good actinic, and keep your calcium and strongtium levels spot on, and coraline will grow in its own time.
Have fun, and g'luck!
If you want to give things a boost, there's always commercial products like TLC for Saltwater to put a jumpstart on your bacteria colony. And there's also products like PurpleUp to increase the growth of coraline algae. However, if you can be patient, give it some good actinic, and keep your calcium and strongtium levels spot on, and coraline will grow in its own time.
Have fun, and g'luck!
kathainbowen
New member
Patience and cash are not two things I am always generally abundant in. Hence my love of picoreefs! And also why I just wanted to point out that there are some commercial products to help give things a little kick start.
thank you for your reply
right now I have a small piece of shrimp in there to kick start the ammonia. yesterday the ammonia was a t 1.0 I'll keep monitoring it. I should see nitrite soon. I was also wondering if the shrimp should be removed once I see the ammonia spike? or if I let it decompose entirely?
right now I have a small piece of shrimp in there to kick start the ammonia. yesterday the ammonia was a t 1.0 I'll keep monitoring it. I should see nitrite soon. I was also wondering if the shrimp should be removed once I see the ammonia spike? or if I let it decompose entirely?
kathainbowen
New member
Opinions on "fishless" cycling vary greatly as per what to do with adding decomposing matter. On the one hand, you need it to jump start things. On the other hand, it add unnecessary wastes to the tank. Personally, I don't do fishless cycling for that reason, and I don't really recommend it when they're always some cheap hermits or damsels you can toss in (*and by toss- I mean approrpiate acclimate, of course! XD), or stuff like TLC. However, I do know many people who have had fishless cycling work awesome for them, so I can't discredit it as an effective technique.
You could, if you wanted, leave the shrimp and ride out the ammonia and nitrite spikes. However, after the nitrite spike, once the nitrates start to rise, you're going to need to do a good water change to pull them back down. You'll especially need to do this if the tank in question is the 24G aquapod listed under your signature. In a larger tank, you might get away with more as per fishless cycling, but just keep the nitrates in mind before you add fish, whatever the size of the tank if you leave the shrimp in for the whole run.
In a smaller tank, I would lean to the side of caution and remove most of the shrimp shortly after the ammonia spike. Shrimp and krill take longer to decompose fully than other matter (as I recall, TFH actually rated it one time as taking 4 to 8 hours to just *start* decomposing), so it could continue to throw ammonia levels up for a little while. Personally, if the tank in question is the Aquapod, I would remove most, if not all, of the shrimp after the ammonia spike, perhaps leaving only a tiny piece to keep things moving along.
You could, if you wanted, leave the shrimp and ride out the ammonia and nitrite spikes. However, after the nitrite spike, once the nitrates start to rise, you're going to need to do a good water change to pull them back down. You'll especially need to do this if the tank in question is the 24G aquapod listed under your signature. In a larger tank, you might get away with more as per fishless cycling, but just keep the nitrates in mind before you add fish, whatever the size of the tank if you leave the shrimp in for the whole run.
In a smaller tank, I would lean to the side of caution and remove most of the shrimp shortly after the ammonia spike. Shrimp and krill take longer to decompose fully than other matter (as I recall, TFH actually rated it one time as taking 4 to 8 hours to just *start* decomposing), so it could continue to throw ammonia levels up for a little while. Personally, if the tank in question is the Aquapod, I would remove most, if not all, of the shrimp after the ammonia spike, perhaps leaving only a tiny piece to keep things moving along.
masterswimmer
New member
Hey Danny, good luck with your new pod. They're nice little systems.
Cycling a barren tank like you've got takes some creativity and patience, as stated above. I think you've done exactly what needs to be done to jump start your cycle.
Your DIY rock will eventually become live with bacteria. What you're going to be lacking is the biodiversity that comes with natural LR, various worms, pods, feather dusters, etc. Putting just a few pieces of LR in there will help to attain that biodiversity.
As for leaving the shrimp in there until they are completely gone, how many pieces of shrimp did you add? If you only put one in there, you can leave it. After your ammonia cycle is complete, add a cleanup crew. The snails and crabs and shrimp will make short work of whatever is left of the decomposing shrimp. Taking out the shrimp prematurely could kill off your welcome bacterial colony. Without any waste material being produced by natural sources the bactera can starve and be wiped out.
As for cycling a tank fishless, IMO that's the ONLY way to go. Putting fish into a bacterialess environment is heartless. The fish will suffer (if not die) from the ammonia spike. If it lives through the ammonia spike then the nitrite spike will continue the suffering (although nitrite is less toxic than the ammonia). Bottom line, you did great with your start. Just be patient. It will take time.
Good luck and keep us posted,
swimmer
Cycling a barren tank like you've got takes some creativity and patience, as stated above. I think you've done exactly what needs to be done to jump start your cycle.
Your DIY rock will eventually become live with bacteria. What you're going to be lacking is the biodiversity that comes with natural LR, various worms, pods, feather dusters, etc. Putting just a few pieces of LR in there will help to attain that biodiversity.
As for leaving the shrimp in there until they are completely gone, how many pieces of shrimp did you add? If you only put one in there, you can leave it. After your ammonia cycle is complete, add a cleanup crew. The snails and crabs and shrimp will make short work of whatever is left of the decomposing shrimp. Taking out the shrimp prematurely could kill off your welcome bacterial colony. Without any waste material being produced by natural sources the bactera can starve and be wiped out.
As for cycling a tank fishless, IMO that's the ONLY way to go. Putting fish into a bacterialess environment is heartless. The fish will suffer (if not die) from the ammonia spike. If it lives through the ammonia spike then the nitrite spike will continue the suffering (although nitrite is less toxic than the ammonia). Bottom line, you did great with your start. Just be patient. It will take time.
Good luck and keep us posted,
swimmer
kathainbowen
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9155404#post9155404 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by masterswimmer
Putting fish into a bacterialess environment is heartless.
Lol. Hence why I suggested TLC. Sorry. Typing before coffee is dangerous...
"Personally, I don't do fishless cycling for that reason, and I don't really recommend it when they're always some cheap hermits or damsels you can toss in (*and by toss- I mean approrpiate acclimate, of course! XD), or stuff like TLC"
.... should read...
"Personally, I don't do fishless cycling for that reason, and I don't really recommend it when they're always some cheap hermits or damsels you can toss in (*and by toss- I mean approrpiate acclimate, of course! XD), AND stuff like TLC"
Many apologies. I start all of my tanks with TLC for Saltwater or Freshwater. I may only have one tank now, but I used to use it all the time when I set up tanks. It's a great thing. No matter how I cycle, I use it to ensure things move along in good time. And it's really not that expensive to get a bottle of it considering the benefits..... and.... no... I don't work for the makers of TLC. I just swear by it. You can also use Cycle from Hagen. Kent and Seachem also have their own version, as I recall, and I do believe Mark Weiss products also make Bacteria Boost. Most sorry for the mix up.
Swimmer, I feel the same way about a fishless cycle, that is why I did it. I have a ton of DIY rock so I can figure out the exact aquascape I want to do without picking up hitchhikers that I don't want.
Thank you for your advice/support. That is what I am looking for advice on how I already started my cycle.
The way I see it is that if after about a year or so if I don't have a ton of life or corraline Then maybe I will add a piece of live rock.
Thank you for your advice/support. That is what I am looking for advice on how I already started my cycle.
The way I see it is that if after about a year or so if I don't have a ton of life or corraline Then maybe I will add a piece of live rock.
kathainbowen
New member
Are you doing FOWLR? Or reef?
... out of curiosity...
... out of curiosity...
kathainbowen
New member
You're actually not that far from me (*my brother and I drive to Newark once a week or two). I found a couple of really nice guys that hooked me up with some awesome aquaculture frags (*some rics, some really awesome zoos, and xenias). I've been getting them established and ready for experimentation in maximizing the productivity of various propagation and care technniques to increase the potential for captive aquaculture as a viable business. Details will follow in a couple of weeks when I actually get the research proposal ready.
When the experiments are over in the fall, if I have any excess, and if you're interested at all in softies, keep your eye on the trading forums, or drop me a line in the fall to remind me. I got them mostly for free, so I basically plan to pass on the excess after the experiments are over.
When the experiments are over in the fall, if I have any excess, and if you're interested at all in softies, keep your eye on the trading forums, or drop me a line in the fall to remind me. I got them mostly for free, so I basically plan to pass on the excess after the experiments are over.
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