DIY Natureef Style Denitrator Build and Data thread...
- Thread starter mrx66699
- Start date
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
Hey Greg, numbers are correct.
140L*60mg/L = 8400mg = 8.4g of nitrates
8.4g * 3 = 25.2g/(0.81g/ml) = 31ml of pure methanol
Dosage amount is in pure methanol. You should dilute it so it doesn't just evaporate from the surface or dose it near the pump to help it get into the solution.
The skimmate increase is expected; you are essentially skimming the excess bacteria that the chamber dumps back into your system after a flush. This is good!
Only dose once per cycle. You will need to adjust the dose when your nitrates start going down. Also, if you start getting a cyano outbreak in main display or if your main display tank gets cloudy you should lower the dose.
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Reactor update
Reactor update
Thursday update
3 rd flush today
Reactor starting to kick in now there is some white mass / bacteria in reactor clinging to the egg crate
After this flush nitrates were higher had to increase dosage up to 40 ml
Now waiting for 0 nitrates for next flush
Hoping now flushes will start to happen more often considering the bacteria is looking better in the reactor , will try and post a picture tonight.
Reactor update
Thursday update
3 rd flush today
Reactor starting to kick in now there is some white mass / bacteria in reactor clinging to the egg crate
After this flush nitrates were higher had to increase dosage up to 40 ml
Now waiting for 0 nitrates for next flush
Hoping now flushes will start to happen more often considering the bacteria is looking better in the reactor , will try and post a picture tonight.
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
Photo of reactor
looking great Greg!!
How do you drain the chamber after a cycle? Did you drill a bulkhead? post a pic of that if you can. Also, I'd move the internal pump up a bit....maybe in the middle.
DRT. Poor picture drain is in rear 90 degree elbow returning to sump
hobbzz
How do I change this?
Great write up guys! I'm seeing some people mentioning the need to turn off the skimmer after a flush, due to what I'm assuming is an overflow. Is this normal? I would expect some more skimmate production, but if it's so much that it causes the skimmer to overflow, that would be a deal breaker for me. I'm really hoping that's not the case because I have a 40 breeder already drilled with an overflow just begging to be turned into a denitrator.
mrx66699
New member
NO do not turn off the skimmer ....water coming out of the denitrator is very low o2 and needs to dump next to the skimmer ....the skimmer will increase in production like crazy in the beginning and should level off so you can adjust but increased production is a reaction to the chamber
hobbzz
How do I change this?
So is adjustment of the skimmer every time it flushes a requirement to prevent overflow? Or do you just leave it set where it is, and you simply get a surge in production, not necessarily an overflow?
Also to anyone reading this that does not use race gas as their methanol source, what do you use? I believe Red Sea Nopox is methanol, but it would be cost prohibitive. Thanks.
mrx66699
New member
skimmer adjustment is just so you can get it set and used to the increase in production at the beginning and will not need to be done after getting readjusted.....when you say overflow ...its just to get it readjusted to the new levels of production and wont need to be done every time it flushes
hobbzz
How do I change this?
Thanks MrX. Do you notice that you have to adjust your skimmer to a point that it sits idle when the denitrator is not flushing? Just a curiosity.
Greg, I'm sure I could find some here. One of the local lfs owners that I know, started with a performance shop for mustangs and the like so I'm sure he could point me in the right direction. I'm just leery of putting race gas in my tank as you never know what the .1% in 99.9% pure could be. Then there is of course different manufacturers putting together their own recipe.
Greg, I'm sure I could find some here. One of the local lfs owners that I know, started with a performance shop for mustangs and the like so I'm sure he could point me in the right direction. I'm just leery of putting race gas in my tank as you never know what the .1% in 99.9% pure could be. Then there is of course different manufacturers putting together their own recipe.
mrx66699
New member
No way its always producing ....I have a Bubble King Supermarine 300 and it gets emptied 2 or 3 times a week...
Was a thread ever stated dealing with the Strontium Nitrate?
You mention that under anaerobic conditions the bacteria use the nitrate from the Sr(NO3)2 and the strontium then binds with phosphate, would this also occur for bacteria that grow in aerobic conditions? Like your typical carbon dosing bacteria types. I am curious if this can be applied to other bacteria reactors or only the anaerobic kinds?
I am currently feeding my aerobic carbon reactor a mixture of CaNO3, Mg(NO3)2 and KNO3 as a means of getting the bacteria mass to grow, and lowering phosphates in the process, but the idea of being able to use a nitrate source that directly binds phosphate is a very attractive idea.
Dennis
You mention that under anaerobic conditions the bacteria use the nitrate from the Sr(NO3)2 and the strontium then binds with phosphate, would this also occur for bacteria that grow in aerobic conditions? Like your typical carbon dosing bacteria types. I am curious if this can be applied to other bacteria reactors or only the anaerobic kinds?
I am currently feeding my aerobic carbon reactor a mixture of CaNO3, Mg(NO3)2 and KNO3 as a means of getting the bacteria mass to grow, and lowering phosphates in the process, but the idea of being able to use a nitrate source that directly binds phosphate is a very attractive idea.
Dennis
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DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
I would love to know more about your aerobic carbon reactor.
What type of bacteria are you growing?
What carbon do you feed it?
How much of these 3 salts are you using?
How does the reactor affect your water (pH, Alkalinity...etc)
Do you get a lot of precipitates? (Mg, Ca...)
We are using the same bacteria that are found in other forms of carbon dosing (Ethanol/vinegar/sugar..etc). It is Heterotrophic and probably gram negative (pseudomonas sp). It will only grab the Nitrate for energy when the Oxygen is low. IME it only starts using the Sr(NO3)2 when other forms of nitrate are low.
Strontium nitrate Sr(NO3)2 will definitely feed your reactor but also will react with the Mg in your solution. I'm not sure it will form proper SrP (P=orthophosphate) and precipitate out. You should probably post in the chemistry forum.
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No specific kind of bacteria. Whatever bactreial type that dominates in your typical carbon dosing regimen. I have dosed MB7 and Vitalilty, so I would expect them to be the common nitrifying bacteria.
I feed the reactor 0.9ML/hr. of vinegar. I use a dosing pump that runs 33 secs per hour (at 1.8ML/minute).
Currently I am dosing 10ML daily of a solution comprised of 1 tbs of each of the 3 nitrate salts (Mg,K,Ca) dissolved in 800ML of RODI. I have also started to dose about 1ML of Iron each day as I believe that it has become limiting to the bacerial growth. When I first started using the reactor 1 month ago, I was dosing 20ML of the same solution and getting much higher growth than I am currently. However my phosphates are now lower. All nuisance algae has disappeared from my DT.
I don't notice any affect on alkalinity. It appears to lower the PH slightly on average (around 0.05).
I have not witnessed any precipitation using the nitrate salts. However I don't currently automatically dose Ca (or Mg or K) outside of the nitrate versions. My Calcium was always high, so only Alk was needed. My latest test for Ca showed it at 425, so I have started to manually bolus dose it just to make sure it does not drop too low.
The reactor is a modified Zeovit reactor, altered to spin vigourously in an alternating fashion every 3 hours. I am using the zeolites in the reactor, but do not expect them to be adding much to the effectiveness, other than as a physical obstruction to unimpeded flow, and to slow the flow down to allow a grater contact time. The bacterial mulm is readily visible growing on the bottom of the inner cyclinder and looks a lot like your photos (only more compact). As setup currently, the reactor sits in my fuge, which feeds into the DT, and all the water entering the fuge, enters through the reactor. I dose into the feed line for the reactor to try to get the bacteria to grow mainly in the reactor (which it does).
If the Sr(NO3)2 could be used, I would discontinue the other nitrate sources and strictly use the strontium version. My objective is a little different than your application, I am looking to lower PO4 using the bacterial growth as well as being a food source for corals. To that end, my fuge (which contains the output of the reactor) drains into the DT.
You can see it in the following thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2440071).
Dennis
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