DIY Natureef Style Denitrator Build and Data thread...

[dartier]

DrThompson, in the chemistry forum the question was asked if you had every witnessed a rise in PO4 after cessation of Sr(NO3)2 dosing. So my question is, have you ever had a period where you stopped dosing the Sr(NO3)2, and if so, did your PO4 rise as expected?

The discussion that this came from was not really about the use of this supplement in the natureef reactor, more so its application in general. Incase you want to read the thread where this is being discussed, it is here (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23088024#post23088024

Dennis

 

[mrx66699]

P04 does rise when usage stops mine rises from around .06 to .14 in about a week...also the strontium efficiency tends to also slow as the P04 levels get down to a low level below the .1 mark as the binding starts to happen with other elements ....its maximum efficiency seems to rise as the P04 level rises ......it should also be noted that just increasing in the amount to make efficiency greater can actually over dose and have adverse effects on inverts .....with the case of your reactor you state all fuge water goes threw it and its not separated I would assume at some point the biomass is going to cut most if not all flow threw into the fuge......I have 30 gal chamber and the biomass has completely cut off all flow to one side and needed to be thinned out

 

[dartier]

That is interesting about the PO4 rising when you stop dosing Sr(NO3)2 ... and in-line with what would be expected. Unintentional raising of the strontium is one of the concerns I (and others) had.

You are correct about the biomass eventually blocking flow. Last weekend I increased the DC pump I am feeding the reactor (and therefore the fuge) one setting level and a plug of bacteria the size of my thumb came out of the reactor drain tube. I have been pulsing the pump every few days since then just in-case the tube is again getting plugged.

Thanks for the feed back on the PO4 behaviour when strontium dosing is interrupted.

Dennis

 

[Greg 45]

Just a small update / time between flushes are getting shorter.
Around 4 to 5 days apart
The only thing that concerns me is that the biomass hasn't really taken off
The egg crate has some white mass and the side of the tank are getting a white film
Matt sent some of his culture and it went to 0 nitrates in a heart beat.
I know this is going to take some time /and that's ok with me
forgot to mention my nitrates were high when started 100 plus
Is there anything I could be doing wrong ???

 

[mrx66699]

No Greg it sounds good it took mine months to build up the lg dirty colored biomass

 

[DRThompson]

Just a small update / time between flushes are getting shorter.
Around 4 to 5 days apart
The only thing that concerns me is that the biomass hasn't really taken off
The egg crate has some white mass and the side of the tank are getting a white film
Matt sent some of his culture and it went to 0 nitrates in a heart beat.
I know this is going to take some time /and that's ok with me
forgot to mention my nitrates were high when started 100 plus
Is there anything I could be doing wrong ???

How much methanol are you dosing?
How often do you test the reactor for nitrates?
Do you have an orp meter?
What's the temp of your water?
What kind of pump are you using in the reactor?
How much water surface tension is there in the reactor?
You can call me after 8pm tonight if you want.

 

[Greg 45]

I can answer a few of these
nitrates are still high over 100 dosing 60 ml using your calculator each time readings different
I test daily to get used to timing of when to flush
orp meter yes but doesn't read under zero
pump tunze 6055 nano with 24 volt chip est. 1500 gph
moved pump up like you asked from previous photo increased surface water movement
I will try to call you Fri night if this is ok

 

[hobbzz]

How do you determine your maintenance dosage? After finding it, how often do you have to check your nitrates to make sure you aren't dumping unused methanol into your system? Or will the bacteria consume the methanol in the denitrator regardless of the amount of nitrate present?

 

[mrx66699]

How do you determine your maintenance dosage? After finding it, how often do you have to check your nitrates to make sure you aren't dumping unused methanol into your system? Or will the bacteria consume the methanol in the denitrator regardless of the amount of nitrate present?

Once you have gotten your Nitrate levels to 0 and the amount of cycles your desiring per day now you need to pick one of the cycles while you will be present so you can do manual measurements and adjust dosages......slowly cut back the dosages till you find the sweet spot where levels can be detected still right before the cycle would complete ....place the flushing on manual and just extend the time a little till its at 0 before allowing it to flush.... then for the next cycle make your adjustments raising back up levels just a little to lock in that minimal that can be fed in the cycle time frame to complete bringing it to 0

 

[hobbzz]

Then after you have your maintenance dose figured out, how often do you check nitrates to make sure you're not adding too much methanol? Weekly?

What would happen if you added more methanol than you ended up needing because they wasn't enough nitrate present ? Would the bacteria consume it before the cycle ended, instead of other food sources? Or would you end up dumping methanol directly into your tank?

 

[Sleepingtiger]

I think i got the jist of everything when i comes to the unit. I have questions regarding the mechanical portion.

1. So you drilled a hole, installed a bulkhead and it is drained via gravity feed to skimmer side of the sump?

2. Does the water completely drain from the reactor before new water is added?

3. how are you adding water to the reactor? is it automated? how is it automated? manually via pump?

Thanks!

 

[lnevo]

From my understanding water isnt drained, it's flushed. Meaning the drain is an overflow into the sump. New water is pumped in by a separate feed pump for a set time to ensure the water has all been flushed through and then the process starts again.

 

[hobbzz]

From my understanding water isnt drained, it's flushed. Meaning the drain is an overflow into the sump. New water is pumped in by a separate feed pump for a set time to ensure the water has all been flushed through and then the process starts again.

Correct.

 

[Greg 45]

Sorry I haven't posted in a while . Reactor is finally developing bacteria on the egg crate. Time between flushes are finally getting to be days apart. Correct you pump sump water into feed the reactor and it drains back to sump area by your skimmer. I haven't changed any tank water at this time . One thing that I can state is that after a flush anemones that don't look so well perk up in a short period of time. I have never used a product that shows positive results this fast. I cannot wait for it to flush on a daily basis. Dave or Matt did you guys notice this. Or is it because my system had higher nitrates at the start.

 

[mrx66699]

I have noticed my Ritteri Nems seem to love the changes...and yes correct on the flushing guys sorry I didn't see this sooner

 

[mrx66699]

Then after you have your maintenance dose figured out, how often do you check nitrates to make sure you're not adding too much methanol? Weekly?

What would happen if you added more methanol than you ended up needing because they wasn't enough nitrate present ? Would the bacteria consume it before the cycle ended, instead of other food sources? Or would you end up dumping methanol directly into your tank?

It would be like dosing a carbon (Vodka, Vinegar, Sugar) but in a microscopic minimal dose ....talking ml here

 

[Greg 45]

The day has finally arrived . (no I didn't crash the system)
I am finally down to flushing the methanol reactor once a day .I started this aug. 8 th almost 2 months ago to the day. The system originally had over 160 ppm of nitrates . All the anemones perked up from the start. Water in the reaction chamber after flush is 60 ppm. Thanks Dave and Matt for the support helping me get through this. It takes some time but well worth the out come.

 

[lnevo]

Nice. Is once a day the goal? Or will it get to multiple times per day. How low is your target level?

 

[DRThompson]

:beer::wavehand:yay!!!:thumbsup:

 

[DRThompson]

Greg's goal should be cycling 3-4 times a day....target should be nitrates under 10

Remember to adjust your dosing based on nitrate level....then level off and lower dose, dont micro manage it when your nitrates get low.

I currently cycle mine every 10hours using the OSC programming with the apex. My goal isnt nitrates though. My nitrates are undetectable at about 5 hours. I use the extended cycle to remove phosphates. Currently my phosphates are undetectable at about 8ish hours. LMK if you want to start dosing the strontium to remove phosphates. I can help you set that up.