DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
Yes, just be sure nothing is added to it.
DIY Natureef Style Denitrator Build and Data thread...
- Thread starter mrx66699
- Start date
Yes, just be sure nothing is added to it.
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
The amount of methanol you dose is proportional to the concentration of nitrates
and the size of the chamber.
My 200gal system uses a 12gal chamber. My nitrates are 2.5-5mg/L and I dose
1.5ml of methanol per cycle. I currently cycle it 3 times a day. (automated thru my apex)
Matt has a 700gal system and we are using a 30gal chamber. We haven't completed
the first cycle yet so a regular dosing amount is still TBD.
I'm using a formulation based on the reference literature I'm using as well as
my own experience. We've had to modify it a little but basically we are dosing
a 3:1 ratio of methanol to nitrates.
Basic formulation: 3grams of methanol to 1 gram of nitrate
Example:
30gal denitrater chamber; nitrates concentration is 25mg/L
(chamber size) 30gal X 4L/gal = 120Liters (aprox)
(Nitrate conc) 25mg/L X 120L = 3000mg or 3gm of Nitrates
Using the 3:1 ratio
3 X 3gm(nitrates) = 9gm methanol
Methanol specific gravity is about 0.8 so actual ml dose
9gm/0.8= 11.25 or about 11ml of pure methanol
This is the formula for maint dosing.
For start up, you will dose every couple days until you get it to cycle. We are still working on the 1st cycle. Tomorrow will be the 14 day mark. So far we have dosed 30ml of Pure methanol into the chamber. To be honest, I think we underestimated Matt's nitrates. Once you get over 25mg/L all the colors seem to blend to me
. We will be dosing more aggressively to try to get to end of the first few cycles. Also, I've ordered a dissolved oxygen test kit to help find when the chamber goes anoxic (low oxygen) and starts to remove the nitrates.Once we are cycling regularly (under 24 hours) then we will go back to the above formulation for maint dosing.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to post questions on the thread, I am happy to answer. This continues to be a learning experience for us as we are challenged with starting up a larger denitrater chamber.
Last edited:
:idea:Thanks for sharing!
Northside Reef
Premium Member
really a fun read guys thank you both for putting in so much time on this. Lots of questions I hope I did not miss them being answered earlier.
How are you determining the surface area needed for the bacteria for the size of the system?
When you dose the methanol is it all at one time, or over a period of time?
will you be dosing the methanol at the beginning of each new cycle once you start your maintenance dose?
Where would someone get a starter culture of the bacteria?
Once the weather here in the frozen north clears a bit I want to make a few modifications to my filtershed. This looks like a very nice addition. Also Dr T I would be very interested in learning more about your auto water change system. It's on the list of things I want to complete this year.
Thanks again guys.
How are you determining the surface area needed for the bacteria for the size of the system?
When you dose the methanol is it all at one time, or over a period of time?
will you be dosing the methanol at the beginning of each new cycle once you start your maintenance dose?
Where would someone get a starter culture of the bacteria?
Once the weather here in the frozen north clears a bit I want to make a few modifications to my filtershed. This looks like a very nice addition. Also Dr T I would be very interested in learning more about your auto water change system. It's on the list of things I want to complete this year.
Thanks again guys.
mrx66699
New member
Surface area for mine was around just double of Docs as mine is around double of his ..his was just a replica of an original......
Methanol is dosed all at once at the beginning of the cycle.....
Starter cultures have just been shared amongst users here local...Dr. T could prolly help you on start up solution options...
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
How are you determining the surface area needed for the bacteria for the size of the system?
The size of the chamber was more of a consideration. By my estimates you need to turn over 10-15% of your total system water volume per day for the denitrater to be effective. Since Matt's system is about 700gal in total volume we decided to use a 30 gal chamber with the plan to cycle it at least 3 times per day. At 3 cycles per day it would give us a turnover of 120gal per day which is over the 15% goal.
When you dose the methanol is it all at one time, or over a period of time?
You dose the methanol as soon as the cycle is complete and you've flushed the water thru. The methanol is critical for the bacteria to grow.
Will you be dosing the methanol at the beginning of each new cycle once you start your maintenance dose?
You dose the methanol at the very beginning of EVERY cycle. When we get Matt's denitrater to cycle under 24 hours we can automate it. If you need help designing a chamber just PM me or matt.
Where would someone get a starter culture of the bacteria?
If you cant find someone local to give you some there's a place online that will ship it. http://www.poseidonsrealm.com/denitrators.htm They sell the natureef denitraters, nitragone, phosphagone, and also sell starter culture. If you want to pay for shipping I'd be happy to send you some starter culture from my chamber.
Dr T I would be very interested in learning more about your auto water change system.
I started a forum on my automated water change system. If you go to the beginning few pages you will see my setup.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2349824
LMK if you have any other questions.
The size of the chamber was more of a consideration. By my estimates you need to turn over 10-15% of your total system water volume per day for the denitrater to be effective. Since Matt's system is about 700gal in total volume we decided to use a 30 gal chamber with the plan to cycle it at least 3 times per day. At 3 cycles per day it would give us a turnover of 120gal per day which is over the 15% goal.
When you dose the methanol is it all at one time, or over a period of time?
You dose the methanol as soon as the cycle is complete and you've flushed the water thru. The methanol is critical for the bacteria to grow.
Will you be dosing the methanol at the beginning of each new cycle once you start your maintenance dose?
You dose the methanol at the very beginning of EVERY cycle. When we get Matt's denitrater to cycle under 24 hours we can automate it. If you need help designing a chamber just PM me or matt.
Where would someone get a starter culture of the bacteria?
If you cant find someone local to give you some there's a place online that will ship it. http://www.poseidonsrealm.com/denitrators.htm They sell the natureef denitraters, nitragone, phosphagone, and also sell starter culture. If you want to pay for shipping I'd be happy to send you some starter culture from my chamber.
Dr T I would be very interested in learning more about your auto water change system.
I started a forum on my automated water change system. If you go to the beginning few pages you will see my setup.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2349824
LMK if you have any other questions.
mrx66699
New member
He ment 3-4 times a day as 3 will only be 90gal per day we are shooting for the 120 gal per day
mrx66699
New member
Still processing in the first cycle....it should be soon ....bacteria is real organized and thickening on the egg crate well ......not much in the open water column...its been a bit of an up and down process in the first cycle...it almost completed then rose a little as we adjusted initial doses...now on the way back down
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Would more egg crate in your reactor give you more surface area for the bacteria and would that help the process?
mrx66699
New member
Somewhat yes....but too much slows the circulation and lowers the volume of water....the bacteria will eventually clump up and be pretty thick on the egg crate and too much egg crate will stop flow all together ...and keep in mind the flow is not a rush of flow just a slow circulation as you are not trying to introduce O2 just keep a slow circulation....
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Possibly lining the outside walls with eggcrate would give you more surface area without interfering with flow.
Northside Reef
Premium Member
I have an old acrylic 40 gallon tank I am going to use to make my reactor I think I will try that. I am a couple months away and a few "Honey do" list items away from getting started so I am following your build and trying to glean as much info as possible. Thanks again for keeping us updated.
mrx66699
New member
Sounds good I think you will find this to be easier than you will ever imagine to keep nitrates down and not having to tailor your feeding habits for your livestock around your water quality.......
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