DIY Red Dragon Pumps, gathering ideas.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jon (or anyone else)...do the 1300 and 1500 use the same motorblock? I have a 1300 that Mavgi sent me, and am realising that the need for the shaft support is a real PITA to fabricate a volute for it. I would LIKE to be able to just buy a 1500 impeller and throw it in there...but don't really want to waste the cash if they are totally different.
 
No, 1300 is same as 600/900. 1500 is the same block as mini dragons and doesnt have a shaft support on the inlet. I dont think a 1500 impeller will fit either... the base support is much larger than the volute will even allow.
 
Mavgi

Mavgi

Here is what we've been talking about in PM's

Here is the 1300...You can see the cooling channel in the impeller well here
<a href="http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o186/JCTewks/?action=view&current=Tewksbury003.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o186/JCTewks/Tewksbury003.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Notice it is easily accessed on the outside of the pump...
<a href="http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o186/JCTewks/?action=view&current=Tewksbury002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o186/JCTewks/Tewksbury002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

You could drill through and tap for a JG fitting right in that channel and have cool water run from the bottom of the impeller to the volute through the cooling channel. IIRC, that is the same way that RE does the "anti lime bypass"
 
okay...I was wrong...just found a pic of a RD2500 from earlier in this thread.
<a href="http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o186/JCTewks/?action=view&current=red-dragon.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o186/JCTewks/red-dragon.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Myu question is, why put the hole there? how is that cooling the motor? I would think htat cooling through the impeller well would be all that they are doing....but why not drill through the logical spot into the cooling channel that is easily accessible?

Anyone have thoughts on WHY RE did it this way?
 
RE does is that way because they use larger magnets. See, mag-drive pumps tend to not be as efficient as shaft driven because of the space they need between the magnet and the impeller for cooling. To regain some of that efficiency/torque, you can swap the impeller out for a larger/stronger one. This also reduces the cooling in this area, so an extra 'anti-lime' loop helps force more water in this area to keep things cool.

Also, skimmer pumps tend to run hotter than when used for just pumping water. They tend to see a power factor drop (lower RMS wattage, but the same or slightly higher VA) because the impeller doesnt have the same resistance as with just water. This means most pumps give off more heat when used as skimmer pumps. The flow of water through the pump is also reduced, so there is less cooling there, and air bubbles dont transfer heat as well as water... so for all these reasons, the anti-lime loop is used.

There are other ways around this though... the ATB pumps for instance. With the RE pumps, Klaus modifies the electrical end of the pump more to match the volute/skimmer pump's needs at the water end, keeping the water end more or less the same. With the ATB pumps/my designs, the volute and impeller are redone to match the capacity of the electrical end of the pumps.
 
But, Jon, the Airstars that you designed are getting more airflow from the stock magnet and electronics than the RD's with their stronger magnets and tinkered electronics....This leads me to believe that all of the money RD drops into "making their pumps better" is really a waste. IIRC, the airstairs are running at or below the RD wattage as well,. right?

So, really, you CAN'T make a RD pump....but you can use the same motorblock and make a better pump :D
 
ALso, Jon....that doesn't explain why they made the bypass there instead of the logical place....the impeller cooling channel.

Where they drilled through the motor there is risk of ruining the pump....if drilled on the top of the pump where the cooling channel is, there is no way you could hit anything electrical.
 
Perhaps there is something electrical there that we cant see? A metal plate? Otherwise, Im sure Klaus has figured out where to drill (an area where its just solid epoxy) the hole w/o running that risk.
 
Jeff

there is a point it's can be done , if you look inside the pump it's close to the end of the impeller where the bearing sit...

if you go to the left side you will touch the electric board card and to the right side you will touch the motor block .

the back of the pump have a metal piece (for grounding) after that there is the electric board and then there is a small space that can be drill... it's on both side of the pump .

if someone with the SM skimmer can measure that we can know the exact point where to drill it...

i am not sure about that (never open the RD pump) it's can be also a small hole and just in the begin bigger one for the fitting.

on the 5000 the hole need to be around 1" from the edge of the pump and about 1.5" from the top but i believe on each pump it's different.

those pump run excellent in sump but when i try Ricric they get over heat , IMO the problem is when you move more air/vs water there is no place to water to move inside the pump. the top of the impeller close.... and water not move inside this cause the pump over heat .

here it's some picture of the 5000 :

PIC_0208.jpg


PIC_0211.jpg


PIC_0215.jpg
 
Depends on which motor as well. The 1500, for example, has more of the impeller well exposed... sort of like a Maxi-Jet if you cut the shroud away... so it would be dead easy to drill. The 2000/2400/2900 though, that would require some trial and error.

The thing is, rather than the RE approach, if you instead enlarge the volute/inlet/outlet, and use a larger impeller (pretty much raising the pumps thoughput), and even mesh... you can bring the flow back up (as well as the power factor) to a reasonable level where the pumps dont get as hot, or buildup calcium as much.
 
AHHH...I see michael. You can see in the pics of the 1300 that I poseted, that there is one whole side of the volute well exposed todrill in. I thought that the larger pumps were built the same way...but I guess not. I will TRY and do it without drilling for the loop....and if it overheats...well, i'll try and drill then :D

Michael...in destroying that 5000 were you able to figure out where the hole should go?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12146289#post12146289 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Depends on which motor as well. The 1500, for example, has more of the impeller well exposed... sort of like a Maxi-Jet if you cut the shroud away... so it would be dead easy to drill. The 2000/2400/2900 though, that would require some trial and error.

The thing is, rather than the RE approach, if you instead enlarge the volute/inlet/outlet, and use a larger impeller (pretty much raising the pumps thoughput), and even mesh... you can bring the flow back up (as well as the power factor) to a reasonable level where the pumps dont get as hot, or buildup calcium as much.
Click to expand...

i didn't get that do you mean that there is more space to drill on the 1500 or to drill the top of the impeller . i try also the 1500 with mesh pulling 30LPM at 48 watt but the pump get very hot.

the easy way is to mount the pump inside the skimmer like the BK mini and to mod it for external under a bubble plat or not , to solve the heat problem but it will be nicer when the pump run out of the skimmer body.

i am going to buy more 1500 and maybe the 2000 or the 2400 to give it a try (hope not to destroy it) but i want to test it external i will use wider shroud like one of this to see if i can reduce the heat if not i'll drill them .

PIC_0216.jpg
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12146446#post12146446 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JCTewks
AHHH...I see michael. You can see in the pics of the 1300 that I poseted, that there is one whole side of the volute well exposed todrill in. I thought that the larger pumps were built the same way...but I guess not. I will TRY and do it without drilling for the loop....and if it overheats...well, i'll try and drill then :D

Michael...in destroying that 5000 were you able to figure out where the hole should go?
Click to expand...

i will buy another one and do it if it's work then we good :D

i also waitnig to get some measurement on the RD pump to see
where is the dimensions there and compare it to this one .

i will send you the 7000 on monday , IMO 1" from the end this is the right place.
 
I meant that the 1500 has more room on the motorblock itself. You'll see if you look at the motor. The 1500 can easily get over 2200lph though, so maybe your version has some sort of restriction on it that it isnt getting as much flow as it could.
 
Does anyone have any idea what laguna pump is used for the BK2000 pump on the BK650? I have a pump that has burned out on my BK650 so have the impeller etc. BK parts are difficult to get hold of in the U.K so a Laguna pump would be cheaper and easier to get hold of.
Many thanks for any help.
 
reef bloke :

IMO if you find the right laguna pump size and match to it the old part from your RD pump you can make it work .


Jeff

it's look the same as my max flow 1500 , but don't forget that the pump sit inside the skimmer body and at this way the water in the skimmer cooling the pump.... also the pump not pull to much air vs water and this also run the pump more cool .

i did a test today on the 1500 and i drill more holes on the impeller disk holder (not on the mesh disk) to move more water inside the impeller the pump reduce the heat to half but there is still heat there . the skimmer i test it's about 36" x 8" and i don't have place to keep it run for few days but in about 2 hour it work without problem and steady heat the truth is i am not sure if it's can run for long time as is .

PIC_0218.jpg


PIC_0219-1.jpg


PIC_0220.jpg


PIC_0221.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

P
Red dragon x pump 40w
Replies
3
Views
2K
slief
slief
Nuuze
Bubble King / Red Dragon sizing
Replies
8
Views
5K
Vinny Kreyling
Vinny Kreyling
oseymour
How to convert the UK Red Dragon Speedy 3 Pump to the US
Replies
3
Views
4K
slief
slief
AZRippster
FS - Red Dragon 3 Mini Speedy 50 Watt (Royal Exlclusiv)
Replies
3
Views
1K
AZRippster
AZRippster
marinelife
Abyzz A200 pump and Royal Exclusiv Red Dragon 3 230W side by side
2 3 4
Replies
66
Views
13K
acer
acer
Back
Top