DIY Red Dragon Pumps, gathering ideas.

[JCTewks]

Thanks man!!!

IME, there is a BIG difference between restricting the output and the effects of head pressure. A larger volute may not necessarily help the pumps ability to move air at high heads...typically, am impeller that takes up more of the volute will handle head better, and the same size impeller in a larger volute will draw more air, just not as much with head.

 

[hahnmeister]

dew2loud1, an 18" diameter cylinder body can handle 8000lph of air. I know it might not seem like it after using the Dart, but thats because the dart creates alot more water turbulence.

The impeller isnt stock, although I see no reason why a stock one couldnt be used (grind off blades, attach mesh, etc just like normal). It really just comes down to how many layers and what diameter you make the mesh.

 

[dew2loud1]

I already have the 24" tube which is why I'm going with that, hahn what design to you recommend for a venturi for this pump?

I cannot really fathom 8000lph I was probably only giving the dart around 3000, realistically what sort of head pressure do you think this pump can handle with the 6" volute 2" in/out

 

[hahnmeister]

Not much... The 6"x2" design gives it about the same pressure bias as the smaller pumps... so about a 24" tall body of water only before the output starts dropping. With the cone bodies (lower waterline possible), its a good match. With a cylinder... well... thats why Im saying 8000lph is possible, through either force feeding or a short body design. Once you go putting it on a 4' tall body of water, it might start cutting back to 6000lph or less. Recirc does help though... your guess is as good as mine at this point. A 4-5" diameter would preserve pressure better though.

 

[dew2loud1]

I might experiment with a couple designs, as far as a venturi design what do you recommend for this pump?

 

[Roland Jacques]

I dont know if they WM are the first, but i thought you might like to see this. (I ll have to post a picture of my verson also, works Awesome.)

A manufacture has just now picked up on this idea of recircing the bubble plate chamber. Kind of like what you described in this post.
I was suspires to see this post, & yet it seemed like no manufacture picked up on it. Until now. I think it is a major improvement to skimmer design. Simple and good, my 2 favorite things

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10704440#post10704440 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister


The first way is to use a taller bubble plate chamber... like a skimmer within a skimmer, and inject at the top of the plate. The air and water will go into the plate towards the top, and the bubbles all stay close to the top until they exit... so you can add another outlet at the bottom... a 'bleeder' so you can reduce water turbulence above the bubble plate. The best way to do this is to have a valve on this extra outlet so you can tune it, and then have this feed back into the recirculating pump somehow... or close to it. That way, if you end up with some microbubbles in the bleed, they will just get recycled into the skimmer pump.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12566825#post12566825 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gcarroll
Here you go.

Warner Marine AS-500

Now all it needs is a laguna pump on it (keeping on topic)

 

[hahnmeister]

Looks like someone put the idea to good use! Cool. I dont know that THAT MUCH of the recirc pump's intake should be from the bubble plate though... you need to maintain a positive enough relative pressure under the bubble plate, and you dont want the bubbles to end up going far enough down under the plate to end up getting recirculated in the pumps. But overall, yeah... thats the idea, and if the problems I mention happen, all you would have to do is drill some holes in the sides of the intake pipes between the bubble plate and the eheim intake plumbing.

So you have a link to the original thread on that skimmer?

 

[JCTewks]

Here ya go Jon
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1392814&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

 

[JCTewks]

I discovered a neat trick yesterday: If you click on the "originally posted" link in the quote you'll get the thread that it came from...It's really only useful when a post is quoted from one thread and posted in another

 

[hahnmeister]

Ah, never knew that... makes perfect sence though... thanks!

 

[wmilas]

I'm playing around with skimmer selection for my new setup. I have a 600 gallon display, about 900 gallons total. Will eventually be heavy stocked. My only affordable options at this point are large downdraft (ETSS 2000XR), large beckett (MRC-6r) or something along the lines of a Volcano 1875. Problem with the Volcano is it looks like Scott is really busy. I can't bring myself to pay for a massive Deltec or BK.

I'm fairly handy, and have a small woodshop, so I thought I might possibly try and DIY on one. The problem here is I've never built a skimmer before and my knowledge on acrylic and pvc extends to pretty much cutting it and thats it

I've read all the skimmer threads here, along with all the skimmer 101 pages on DIY ect. Airstone skimmers are a PITA, and becketts too much power. Been following this read on Laguna and this looks exactly what I might want to try and do.

So How would I size this thing? Body somewhere around 18" I assume, not sure on the pump size, (maybe the new 4200?) If the 4200 is a correct fit was thinking what 36" high on the body? What size then would the neck work out to? I'm assuming the skimmer would be setup as a recirc and I'd feed it directly from the overflows.

I was planning on using PVC for the body and possibly cutting out view ports to see whats going on inside... Is this acceptable? The neck could possibly by clear PVC, or worse cast cast acrylic, but I'm not sure.

I'm unsure on how to create the cone from the body to the neck. I've seen people use PVC reducers, although that doesn't look optimal. I've seen people use acrylic domes which I assume are heat shaped over a large bowl. A long time ago I saw someone stretch a cone shape with a mold, oven, and alot of patience.

I know I'm coming off as a total newb here but it doesn't look at that difficult assuming I can figure out the correct way to put the pieces together. Figuring out WHAT those pieces are optimally I think is where I'm going to need the help

 

[hahnmeister]

I would say the 4200 is commercial... or 2000 gallons on up. 8000lph is enough to skim a car out of the water...lol. I plan on the ATB XL for my 500g display that is in the works. That pump does about 4000lph... which is plenty for a 1000 gallon system ( I plan on a couple hundred in the sump, and a 240g frag system).

Because the Lagunas can be made so much less turbulent than a Dart (less water, more air), you dont need an 18" diameter to accomidate the pump's flow. If you use a bubble plate, I see no reason why a 12" diameter wouldnt work for the Laguna 2000 pump. Yes, the Laguna 4200 is a monster compared to this, but I feel that an 18" diameter cyclinder isnt hitting its potential until you are close to 8000lph of air.... then the bubble density will truly be like a BK... looking like PVC above the bubble plate. The only catch is that Spazz might have to start making retrofit reducers for the necks, since 8000lph is a bit much for the diameter neck he has on the Volcano. 8000lph warrants a 12" diameter neck. But hey... thats repeat business for Scott...lol. So anyways... its huge... way too huge to bother with for a 600g.

I would modify a Laguna 2000-2400-2900 motor (same motor for all three). With the right side diameter and thickness of the impeller well, you can ramp these things up to 4000lph or more. If you need exact specs, PM me and I can look them up. I dont like to post them now because one guy will read it, and maybe not realize that there are different specs depending on what you want to get out of the pump... as there are multiple ways to mod them with the same 2000 motorblock.

So 12" diameter body would be good for a 2000 motor which should be fine for a 600g tank. You can recirculate the motor and then have about an 8" neck. The 8" part should be about 10-12" tall or taller, and the 12" section can be about 24-30" tall. Since you are recirculating the pump, will handle a taller body, but beware that the taller the body, the less air it will pull. Still, even if its cut back to 3500lph or something... I dont see this as being a huge problem. The bubble plate should be about 9-10" diameter, and have a 1.5" pipe from the pump to the plate.

 

[ServantSoldier]

I'm considering trying my hand at building a skimmer utilizing the PJ1500. Can someone point me in the direction of some skimmers built around this pump? I would like to see some example dimensions. I would like to run this in sump with a diffuser plate. I feel comfortable with the bubble kings due to the great reviews and would like build something similar to their design. Thanks for the help!

 

[hahnmeister]

ATB Large uses the Laguna 1500 for about 2250lph max (I can provide specs to go over that even... into the 2700lph area).

BK uses these motors for the BK minis, or Red Dragon Minis. They make 600, 800, and 1000lph respective on the mini 160, 180, and 200 skimmers at 50Hz. I think the US specs on the pumps are 100-200lph more for each skimmer.

 

[ServantSoldier]

Wow! Thats amazing they are used in such a wide spectrum. With the lph so much lower on the BK minis, is there going to be a large amount of turbulence? Are they metering the waterflow down as well as the air? I have a 120 up and running right now I would be interested in trying the project on since the mini is built around this pump. Say the 200. Do you have any recommendations on pump setup for a skimmer this size?

 

[hahnmeister]

The BK minis have more restricted inlets/outlets, and a smaller volute (as well as needlewheel). This pretty much makes it a smaller pump.

For a 120g, I would consider 480-960lph to be plenty of air.

 

[crazzy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11736929#post11736929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
If it helps, here is a pic post tutorial that one of my fellow WRS guys did which applies to any forum, including this one...
http://www.wisconsinreefsociety.org/showthread.php?t=472

As for the air intake, for the 1500 on up (2000lph on up), I use 1/2" ID hose myself.

In oerder to access this link one must register.
I have tried twice and each time when it asks for "Referrer" I put in hahnmeister, and I get an invalid referrer

 

[hahnmeister]

try w3tw0rx... thats my name on that forum.

 

[orientalexpress]

does ATB Xlarge come with 4200 pump now or it's still in work?also does ATB plan to put antilime on their pump like BK does.Thanks in advance



lapsan

 

[crazzy]

Thanx that worked.
Could you post your suggestions for the 4200
Thanx for all your input here, has helped tremendously!!