DIY Red Dragon Pumps, gathering ideas.
- Thread starter hahnmeister
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SunnyWindyClown
In Memoriam
wow what a long thread. I have just read thru all of it. What makes these pumps so good is there an al ready modded pump for sale?
The
TacoKing
New member
Ok.. I need a little advice here. I run a custom skimmer that's 48" tall and 12" in diameter. It's currently being run by a Sequence Orca pump with a SweetWater SL24 airpump attached to it. There is no bubble plate, but one could be created.
I've never felt this skimmer has performed as it should. It might be the air pump, it might be the dart. I just can't figure it out. I see these other skimmers with real tiny bubbles that are very dense. This one just isn't as thick.
Should I try playing around with a big Laguna and see what I can do with that? Mod the Orca a bit? Increase the Sweetwater airpump?
I've never felt this skimmer has performed as it should. It might be the air pump, it might be the dart. I just can't figure it out. I see these other skimmers with real tiny bubbles that are very dense. This one just isn't as thick.
Should I try playing around with a big Laguna and see what I can do with that? Mod the Orca a bit? Increase the Sweetwater airpump?
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Id say a linear air pump on a Laguna 2000/2400 motorblock would be a good place to start. Without a venturi... just pumping air into the pump and converting the impeller to handle mesh, the pump should easily handle 100 scfh.
cweder
Member
Wow, what a great thread..only took me a year to find it.
I would really be interested in converting my MSX 300 w/extended neck to a laguna or laguna/sicce. This skimmer uses a 12 inch wide body and 8 inch tall riser with the extended neck option. I think having 2 sicces on this draws in too much water creating too much turbulence. I was thinking of getting the Laguna 1500 and getting the needlewheel/volute conversion kit which is rated about 2000 l/hr and either use this only or with one of the Sicce pumps. This way I would be all needle wheel/pinwheel which I like for consistancy. A problem might be that the neck is only 5.5 inch diameter and this might be too much air. It should be arriving today. The other option was to wait and see if anyone comes out with a needlewheel/volute conversion for the laguna 2000, but this might be overkill. Any opinions..
I would really be interested in converting my MSX 300 w/extended neck to a laguna or laguna/sicce. This skimmer uses a 12 inch wide body and 8 inch tall riser with the extended neck option. I think having 2 sicces on this draws in too much water creating too much turbulence. I was thinking of getting the Laguna 1500 and getting the needlewheel/volute conversion kit which is rated about 2000 l/hr and either use this only or with one of the Sicce pumps. This way I would be all needle wheel/pinwheel which I like for consistancy. A problem might be that the neck is only 5.5 inch diameter and this might be too much air. It should be arriving today. The other option was to wait and see if anyone comes out with a needlewheel/volute conversion for the laguna 2000, but this might be overkill. Any opinions..
cweder
Member
Thats the problem.. once you start DIY ..you always find another way to do it and wonder if maybe thats the ticket. I like the idea of using the 1500 alone, if I can get 2000 l/hr I think I would be set.
Hahn: you do amaze some times... I like it. I came very, very close to getting a BK, then the thought of buying a replacement pump kind of changed things.
Hahn: you do amaze some times... I like it. I came very, very close to getting a BK, then the thought of buying a replacement pump kind of changed things.
cweder
Member
The Sicce can do this maxed out on mesh but I want something more reliable then mesh long term and with less turbulence inside skimmer. When I ran a extrem 300 with 2 Sicce pumps before it had way more turbulence than the orca 250 I had to compare it to. If I want 3000 L/Hr I figure I can attach the Sicce and Laguna and still be very reliable and skip the mesh. My other concern is that the Laguna output may be restricted by the small ports they use to attach the Sicces.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
The beast is just grand. I have had to wait for my buddy's schedule and mine to line up well (he lives about an hour away), but we have a date this next week for it to go up on his system against the Volcano.
The 1500 can do more than 2000lph... it is a 100 watt motor after all. My ATB w/ needlewheel 1500 does about 2300lph. The volute from C&C/Octo is not as 'open' and doesnt get as much air because its outlet is smaller than say, the ATB's. The 1500 that ATB will end up using on the Mediums will be more similar to that one. FWIW, if you enlarge the inlet venturi on the ATB 1500 more, its air intake goes even higher... into the 2600 range with just the needlewheel. I couldnt tell you about startup at that size, but Im sure there is some way to make it work... I have never had a problem starting the needlewheel versions FWIW. The mesh more so... but I think its in how the meshwheels are made usually. Upon startup, there is a suction against the inlet as the disk spins, and where a normal needlewheel would stay firm, mesh tends to 'whip up' and rub against the face of the volute (not the parimeter), causing the sputter. The solution is to use a lower profile impeller or a deeper volute, both solutions increase the gap between the impeller and the volute face so things cant actually touch each other. IMO, its not the diameter of the mesh that causes problems as much as the thickness.
The 1500 can do more than 2000lph... it is a 100 watt motor after all. My ATB w/ needlewheel 1500 does about 2300lph. The volute from C&C/Octo is not as 'open' and doesnt get as much air because its outlet is smaller than say, the ATB's. The 1500 that ATB will end up using on the Mediums will be more similar to that one. FWIW, if you enlarge the inlet venturi on the ATB 1500 more, its air intake goes even higher... into the 2600 range with just the needlewheel. I couldnt tell you about startup at that size, but Im sure there is some way to make it work... I have never had a problem starting the needlewheel versions FWIW. The mesh more so... but I think its in how the meshwheels are made usually. Upon startup, there is a suction against the inlet as the disk spins, and where a normal needlewheel would stay firm, mesh tends to 'whip up' and rub against the face of the volute (not the parimeter), causing the sputter. The solution is to use a lower profile impeller or a deeper volute, both solutions increase the gap between the impeller and the volute face so things cant actually touch each other. IMO, its not the diameter of the mesh that causes problems as much as the thickness.
JCTewks
In Memoriam
cweder: I would think that you would have to drill out the existing 3/4" hole where the Sicce attaches and us a 1" or 1 1/4" uniseal to attach the 1500....but then you have to replace the part that goes into the BP as well. It might be more hassle than it's worth...but, DIY is USUALLY about more hassle than it's worth :lol::lol:
some questions
1) is modding the pumps safe? if so which mods have little to no effect on the pumps.
2) with the mesh mod are u going for same wieght as the original needlewheel?
3 how does the added air affect the pump will it add a heat issue
these were the mods i was interested in, boring out the diameter of the feed, moving the venturi closer to the needlewheel and adding the mesh
thanks for the input
1) is modding the pumps safe? if so which mods have little to no effect on the pumps.
2) with the mesh mod are u going for same wieght as the original needlewheel?
3 how does the added air affect the pump will it add a heat issue
these were the mods i was interested in, boring out the diameter of the feed, moving the venturi closer to the needlewheel and adding the mesh
thanks for the input
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
1) usually 1)no such thing
2)no
3)if power factor drops too much, pump does run hotter
2)no
3)if power factor drops too much, pump does run hotter
simon.007
New member
Laguna pumps as return pump?
Laguna pumps as return pump?
Hi,
I want an efficient return pump about 1200 - 2000 GPH and the Laguna, Snapper and RedDragon pumps seems like a good choice using about 75 - 100W.
I have a Snapper and though it says it uses 100W I have (using Kill-A-Watt) gauged it at 120W!!! Would you have checked the Laguna pumps of the advertised Watts vs. its real watts?
Also, what about the Laguna's reliability vs. Snapper vs. Red Dragon?
I know RedDragon uses 75W and pumps about with 2166GPH (as advertised) Can this be done for the Laguna 2400 pump by restricting its output to 2166?
Thanks in advance
Simon
Laguna pumps as return pump?
Hi,
I want an efficient return pump about 1200 - 2000 GPH and the Laguna, Snapper and RedDragon pumps seems like a good choice using about 75 - 100W.
I have a Snapper and though it says it uses 100W I have (using Kill-A-Watt) gauged it at 120W!!! Would you have checked the Laguna pumps of the advertised Watts vs. its real watts?
Also, what about the Laguna's reliability vs. Snapper vs. Red Dragon?
I know RedDragon uses 75W and pumps about with 2166GPH (as advertised) Can this be done for the Laguna 2400 pump by restricting its output to 2166?
Thanks in advance
Simon
JCTewks
In Memoriam
You'll need to figure out a way to tie the Laguna into your plumbing...they DO NOT have slip or threaded fittings on them, they are a wierd barb like fitting designed to acccept their roprietary quick connect.
Ideally, you could make a custom volute with standard SCH40 size inputs and outouts.
Ideally, you could make a custom volute with standard SCH40 size inputs and outouts.
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