Do sand sifters cause more damage than good in a DSB?

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KiwiBruce

New member
I posed the following question in the General Reefkeeping forum, but have only had one or two replies:

I have a question regarding Plenum/DSB systems. I have a plenum reef tank, set up exactly as recommended by Julian Sprung. My question relates to sand sifters, such as gobies and sand dollars. Will these also sift and eat/kill the good bacteria that lives in the sand and which the plenum/DSB relies on to convert the nitrates? The top 3/4" of sand is pure white and clean thanks to these efficient guys.

In other words, if I have such sand sifters in my tank am I doing more damage than good?

The limited concensus seemed to be that I am worrying about nothing. Is this correct?

Thanks
 
IMO, the more the merrier. I would want a lot of sifting getting done to help eliminate pockets of Phosphate and hydrogen Sulfide. Dont worry about denitrification....this process also occurs deep inside your live rock.
 
Re: Do sand sifters cause more damage than good in a DSB?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6471786#post6471786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KiwiBruce
I posed the following question in the General Reefkeeping forum, but have only had one or two replies:

I have a question regarding Plenum/DSB systems. I have a plenum reef tank, set up exactly as recommended by Julian Sprung. My question relates to sand sifters, such as gobies and sand dollars. Will these also sift and eat/kill the good bacteria that lives in the sand and which the plenum/DSB relies on to convert the nitrates? The top 3/4" of sand is pure white and clean thanks to these efficient guys.

In other words, if I have such sand sifters in my tank am I doing more damage than good?

The limited concensus seemed to be that I am worrying about nothing. Is this correct?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Doesn't Sprung recommend a layer of screening that separates the lower anaerobic section of the bed from the upper aerobic section? If so, the sifters aren't going to be able to disturb the anaerobic section. And I'm not sure that sifters can harm the bacteria anyway.

How do you like the sand dollars? Sounds like they do a good job keeping the sand clean. Are they hardy?
 
thanks everyone. I have a screem mid way down the sand bed between the coarse and finer grain sand layers, so I guess everything should be ok then.

aubee...the sand dollars are kinda cute except that you never get to see them as they live below the top surface of the sand. Sometimes they climb up the glass a bit to get around a rock. They seem to do a good job of keeping the sand clean - not as good as sand sifting gobies, but then they don't cuase rocks to tumble by digging out underneath them!
 
I thought I had replied to this... but here goes again... short version.

The sand dollars will likely eat your substrate clean. Thus removing all of the benneficial life from it. After they are finished, the will likely starve. At least this is what I have read here at RC several times.

Bean
 
For the most part, sand sifters are great, but like Bean said, there are a few to avoid...

Sand Dollars
Sand-sifting start (and for that matter, most starfish)
Horseshoe crabs

These three in particular will eat everything they can and you end up with only them...and then they starve and die.
 
I do not know of anyone that has had long term success with sand dollars.

All of the animals mentioned here so far will feed on the small invertabrates normally found in sand beds. If you want inverts in your sandbed then yes, you are dammaging your sand bed. If you are primarily concerned with bacterial growth, I don't think you have to worry.

The value of small inverts in your sand bed is that they consume larger particulate matter that settles on the bed, helping cycle your nutrients. They will also reproduce producing plankton to help feed other filter feeders, like corals.

Fred
 
I have been trying to get a "good answer" to this for over 8 mos. now, with similar results.

What I think I have learned is this:

"Sifting" Starfish in the sand is generally not good. They eat up all the "fauna", and then starve, usually.

Crabs eat up an awful lot of "fauna as well, and are not so good for the health of the bed.

MOST snails are "GOOD". Nassarius especially, as they "burrow" and keep things "mixed".

Cucumbers are generally good. Some vacuum the surface, I have a black one that does this. Tiger "cukes" dig down and keep things stirred but, are detrivores, and do not eat "fauna".

Some cukes release poisins, if "overstressed", and then die in your tank. My black guy is very happy, he even cleans the glass.

I have peppermint shrimp, and brittle stars, and do not have an answer about "fauna predation" for either of them.

I also don't know for sure about the sand dollars, I would sure love to have at least one myself.

> barryhc :)
 
sand sifters are needed

sand sifters are needed

Sand sifters are needed with a DSB, they provide a function called Bioturbation. Which is the removal of waste as a food source, in the process they create movement in the bed which allows for the removal of Nitrogen, and with every Nitrogen bubble that leaves the DSB bed allows for new water to be introduced.
Now here is where we shouldn't be confused on which sand sifters we are talking about, the small microscopic microbes, copepods, amphripods, bristleworms, are the sand sifters that are needed. Sand sifting fish, usually do a real number on sandbeds by moving alot of sand that disrupts everything. So here is where Refugiums come into play, you can have all the sandsifters you want, and the Refugium will handle everything as the big boys do their natural thing in the main tank.

:) CaptiveReef
 
Yes but then comes the debate about the differences between a remote and local DSB and their effectiveness and function. Ohh sorry did I just open the can of worms!

Bean
 
Worms for the DSB

Worms for the DSB

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6525525#post6525525 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Yes but then comes the debate about the differences between a remote and local DSB and their effectiveness and function. Ohh sorry did I just open the can of worms!

Bean
Click to expand...
Valid point, but the tank DSB will be compromised by the larger sifters, the Refugium will not be disturbed, and they do work as long as they have a constant supply of tank water going through them.

:D CaptiveReef
 
Sand sifting gobies are really harmless unless you have any 'pods that you want to keep alive. And, unlike some other sand sifters, they won't starve once they clean out your sand bed of all living things- except bacteria. They learn to pick food such as flakes out of the water column pretty soon after acclimating. Well, good luck!
 
I have read (but have no personal experience) that the remote DSB will do a great NNR job, but not much else. Then again if you can somehow keep the sand sifters alive, then they will likely keep the detritus off the tank floor.
 
BeanAnimal said

"I have read (but have no personal experience) that the remote DSB will do a great NNR job, but not much else. "

What is NNR stand for?

Thanks,
Matt
 
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