Dr. Foster and Smith Divers Den Anemone Survival Thread

Reefvette

New member
This post is an no way supposed to bash Drfoster and smith.
I am trying to get an idea on how many anemones have been purchased from them that have indeed survived.

Maybe this thread can help them with their care for anemones and shipping stress.


Ill Start,

WI facility to NJ

Purple Base Green Tentacle Bubbletip Anemone
7 inches wide
Before death my anemone began shooting out little greenish orange balls about the size of a bigger poppy seed.
Lived for about a week and a half

Looked bleached out compared to their pictures when it was on DD.

Full Refund
 
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WI Facility to St. Louis

Purple and Green
Heteractis Malu

(Here is the link)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1409301&perpage=25&highlight=$200%20Sebae&pagenumber=1

Arrived much lighter in color than the picture showed (you can see those pictures on page 3+ of that thread).

Started shrinking slowly and continually got lighter. Didn't make it 4 months.

I'm thinking it could have been my lighting... or could have just been a doomed anemone. Either way I won't try another Malu until I have stronger lighting - just to be sure. After 3 months it was moved to a MH lit tank - but by that point it was very bleached out.
 
Ordered a purple based white tipped BTA that looked like it had eggs in the online photo. It came, released (probably unfertilized ) eggs , and died shortly after. The stress of spawning and possible contamination of bag water probably were contributing factors, not really DD's fault in my opinion.
Refund

Ordered a DD Gigantea and received a similar colored haddoni which I did not have a fishless QT for. It didn't survive the extra transport and acclimation to another reefer's tank. I was told the normal manager of the facility was away and that explained the mix up.
Refund

Ordered a very small "Purple" magnifica. Four inches if I remember right. The picture was taken under heavy actinics and didn't show the foot which I assumed was purple since the tentacles were not and most people refer to mags by the color of the foot. I got this
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Bk5S28ZW8dUVbBELpz8ROA"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_us0v_ANEsYg/SSSTYMUoTkI/AAAAAAAAFew/MutwK3epJTg/s288/DSC02151.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/FlightyMail/MoreMagnifica">more magnifica</a></td></tr></table> but it survived and I did not ask for a refund.
 
I ordered a H. Mag from DD to MN. tlived about two weeks. They replaced it with another, it lived for about two weeks.

I swore off online anemone ordering.
 
I think it's fair to expand this to all online retailers shipping anemones. Share your stories please.
 
I ordered from a place called Fresh Marine. ordered two H. Magnificas and received two M. Doreensis,, They insisted they shipped me the correct thing.. they finally agreed to charge me the price for the M. Doreensis which were half the price.
 
Mines going strong after a month no issues so far eats like a monster doesnt move at night.
Pic of when I got it
DSC01205.jpg
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Dont have an updated photo yet..............
 
Lets not expand this to other retailers

Lets not expand this to other retailers

The whole point is to show that other then RBTAS or GBTAS DD has some improving to do with the shipping or husbandry of their live stock.


Read the top post. This thread is a result of another thread about dd anemone that looked like its mouth was gaping in the pic they posted.

FLighty me and you ordered the same anemones.
Ron shimek (sp) told me they were eggs that came out. I rember that pic they were in the tentacles.
 
I have to add to the thread that I have only considered ordering anemones from divers den because they are head and shoulders above other online sites I have looked at for anemones. Their specimens are at least in consistently decent shape. You do not generally find severely bleached anemones or anemones that are floppy or on their way out.

Many other online retailers use the "pretty" neon and white anemones or giganteas that look like disks of mush barely held together by their outsides. The folks at divers den at least know the basics of anemone health. Shipping of these harder anemones does not have a high success rate by the methods we use. Most online retailers have no guarantee on these guys surely because of the super high losses.

Sure some of us can see subtle warning signs in some of the DD anemones, but in most cases we have seen anemones worse off survive.

I can't fault them for the Purple BTA that had eggs. It seemed to be well handled and if not for the eggs it probably would have been fine. I am curious if any of that batch survived. You could see eggs in several of the pictures.
 
I ordered a blue haddoni or gigantea (not sure which it actually was) from DD about 2 years ago, and it died during the guarantee period, maybe 10 days after arrival. Got the cost back, but not the shipping.
 
I like the idea of a L.A. nem survival thread NOt because it could be used to gauge their shipping procedures, but to gauge how many times they had to replace nems for FREE. I think if you get enough replies reefvette, you will see that those who ordered BTA'a and RBTA's still have happy nems for the most part, while those that ordered giganteas, and ritteri lost theirs if not in days than in weeks. What it will show is what we already know, that BtA's tolerate shipping better, and can be kept moderately well in aquariums. Giganteas and Ritteri-not so much. A big part of the problem is the stress of shipping, and I know some of those on this board have large, stable aquariums with intense lighting that should be able to support a nem. I would love to be able to fund research on the collection, shipping and acclimation of nems, but I don't have the resources (funds). I think it is a worthy topic for a scientific grant. Reefvette, I hope you get tons of replies to this thread, it may be an eye-opener. I love to see a thread to on the use of Kordon breather bags for shipping nems, as well as collection, shipping practices, but I know that is of topic for this thread. I personally have never ordered a nem online. I've been tempted many times, but have always gotten mine from a lfs, where I could see how it was doing already in a tank, and then only have to transport it for an hour.
 
It would also be interesting to include each persons acclimation procedures. While I never ordered an anemone from an online retailer, when I worked at my LFS we would drip acclimate for ~1 hour or longer while we unpacked the rest of the livestock. Most anemones made it but the BTAs definitely faired much better and seemed stronger than carpets or sebaes (We didn't often get other species than those in). They do bleach out in shipping but with TLC we were able to make most of them bounce back and color up in our tanks before selling them.

Hope this helps with your data a little!
 
Also how old are your tank setups and water parameters? I know Flighty has a lot of experience with anemones, but hopefully everyone else understands the complexity of these creatures. Many times with H. Mags it's hit or miss and most likely miss due to them not be collected or transported well.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13782307#post13782307 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Heterodonut
I like the idea of a L.A. nem survival thread NOt because it could be used to gauge their shipping procedures, but to gauge how many times they had to replace nems for FREE.

have to agree, also i think you will see this trend whether the anemones are from LA, other online source or your LFS. anemones go from difficult to most difficult and without knowing a lot more about each individual system how can we say what killed the anemone.

i have seen experts with mature stable system not be able to keep to keep the tougher anemones and i have seen newbies with a 3 month old system be successful in keeping a BTA ( not suggesting anyone tries ).

i think we will show that BTA's are a harider species than most the rest, regardless of where they come from.
 
The only

The only

Online retailer i have order a anemone from and it lived was THAT FISH PLACE, it was a BTA but i also drove the two hours to pick it up.



Currently right now i have a 30 gallon breeder, with t-5s


I have a gigantea in their that i have been nuring back to health and a newly purchased magnifica. Both are going awsome and thriving.


Soon they will be moved to a 50 gallon custon anemone tank
36 long by 20 by 18. Its not a custom size but the plumbing is going to be.

Throught some research over the last couple years i have noticed that Giganteas with Magnificas is in my expeirences possible.

I dont recommend BTAS with Mags or Gigantea.
 
Good Afternoon,

After reading this thread and everyone’s posts it appears that most everyone participating has some knowledge of the difficulties associated with certain species of delicate anemones. Although the scientific community and aquarists alike have made incredible progress over the last decade regarding the care and husbandry requirements needed to successfully maintain some of the more challenging marine organisms, there is still a lack of understanding about the behavior and requirements regarding Anemones in a captive environment. All of us here on RC as well as enthusiasts and professionals can only hope that someday soon, through our observations and interactions in caring for anemones in the home aquarium, we will all have a better understanding of each species exact care and handling requirements so that they may be successfully maintained on a long term basis in the home aquarium.

All of the staff at our Aquaculture Coral and Marine Life Facility in Rhinelander Wisconsin, along with Steve Krogh- the operations manager and myself, are responsible for the care and husbandry of the Divers Den animals in our facility. We are very fortunate to have compiled a staff of some of the hardest working and most dedicated individuals that have a passion for the animals we are so fortunate to care for.

As the Director of LiveAquaria my primary job is to acquire the healthiest animals available in the trade, and develop best practices guidelines and procedures pertaining to acclimation, husbandry, handling, packaging and shipping of the livestock that enters and leaves our facility in Wisconsin. I have worked in the marine livestock industry my entire working life, and have handled thousands of anemones from around the world. All of this experience over the last 26 years working in retail, wholesale/import export, then on to designing and overseeing the operations of our facility in Wisconsin is applied to how we handle and care for the animals in our facility.

As most of you know who have already posted in this thread, when looking at all of the species of Anemones available from the Indo Pacific, South Pacific, and the Indian Ocean, Entacmaea quadricolor is one of the more durable Cnidarians, and can tolerate the stressors of harvest, post harvest handling, holding, shipping, acclimating, and adaptation into our home aquariums. Next on the list of anemones that are relatively hardy, or more tolerant and adaptable includes both Macrodactyla doreensis followed by Stichodactyla haddoni when they are maintained in the appropriate aquarium environment with pristine water chemistry, proper water flow, intense lighting, and the proper substrate depth and composition. ALL other species of anemones are far more challenging to maintain, even when these Cnidarians are in the hands of biologists at public aquariums. Cryptodendrum adhaesivum, Heteractis crispa, Heteractis malu, Heteractis aurora, Stichodactyla tapetum, Stichodactyla mertensii and finally Stichodactyla gigantea and Heteractis magnifica being the least tolerant to environmental changes during anytime throughout the long chain of custody starting with their harvest and ending in home aquarium.

The health and well being of all the aquatic life in our facility is my primary concern, and we work diligently to purchase quality animals, and then provide the best possible care for them once they are in our facility. We have very strict handle procedures for all of the animals, and anemones and other invertebrates are no different. For anemones, we start by trying to source these animals from reputable suppliers, that have years of experience in the trade. Obtaining quality anemones that have been harvested and handled properly before export to the US is critical, as this is normally the time when problems can start that seriously compromise the health of these delicate organisms.

When shipments of anemones arrive to us from overseas exporters or from importers in the US, we start by acclimating the animals to temperature by the normal method of floating them in the system where they will be housed. After their temperature is stabilized we then drip acclimate anemones, keeping each species separated in their own acclimation vessel. Once the new anemones are acclimated, each species is placed in its own segregated section of a dedicated raceways that is 6’ long x 3’ wide x 16” tall. Each segregated anemone section has its own return port so each species is supplied with filtered water; along with a supplemental hi flow pump with protective screens to supply the proper water flow to the animals. Each segregated section has the proper substrate in composition and depth along with live rock fragments or coral rubble when needed to try and replicate their natural environmental conditions. Lighting consists of two double ended 250 watt halides over each six foot raceway. Anemones that require the most intense light are located in the area directly below the suspended fixture, where species that are more adaptable and require less intense light are maintained in the offset sections of each raceway. All new anemones are adapted to this lighting over varying lengths of time which is determined by their coloration and behavior, through the use of multiple layers of egg crate material, or egg crate that is covered in nylon screen or mesh when needed.

Filtration consists of a 12’ x 2’ diameter Foam Fractionator with Ozone Injection through a 1gram Ozone generator controlled by a dedicated electronic system monitor and controller. The filtration system also incorporates one 12’ x 10” diameter Fluidized sand bed for biological filtration and all of the filtered water is temperature controlled by a 2hp chiller, and runs through multiple industrial nylon 100 micron filter socks that contain either carbon or poly filter media, before it is returned back to the raceways though the use of a 2 hp pump.

Care and husbandry during and after photo intensity adaptation involves closely monitoring and inspecting the animal’s behavior and health. We feed anemones a diet consisting of fresh finely chopped seafood such as grouper and raw shrimp, as well as offering them PE Mysis Shrimp, lobster eggs, and enriched brine shrimp. After several weeks or even months later for some animals, when the anemone is ready for sale, its then carefully transferred to an adjacent raceway on the same system, and is photographed for the Divers Den under the exact same lighting where it was maintained previously. Photographing anemones can be challenging and oftentimes, it takes multiple tries before it can be uploaded to our web site. It is not our intention nor desire to try and hide any feature about any of the animals we offer in the Divers Den, but rather photograph them in a timely manner, to the best of our ability, so they are accurate representations of the exact animals the customer receives when they purchase aquatic life listed in the Divers Den section of the LiveAquaria.com web site.

Once sold, the packaging procedure we follow for anemones is very similar to the successful methods that have been utilized by exporters and distributors for many years, but we incorporate twice to three times the quantity of water and increase the bag sizes and box sizes for every anemone we ship to reduce the likelihood of water fouling during transit while helping to maintain a more stable temperature. It is our philosophy that the cost of packaging materials and the weight of the package, which oftentimes costs us significantly more than what we charge our customers, is justified as the quality and well being of the animals takes precedence over breaking even on freight.

Successfully maintaining some of the more challenging species of anemones is difficult for even the most skilled aquarist or public aquariums. Environmental changes and stressors have an influence on each individual person’s success or failure rare when keeping anemones in the home aquarium. It is my hope that we keep progressing forward at a rapid pace in the hobby, so that we all can learn more about these fascinating animals. Sharing our success stories which detail the specifics regarding the aquarium setup and husbandry practices with one another benefits the hobby, the marine ornamentals trade, and the scientific community. All of us here on RC that maintains anemones in our home aquariums, can contribute to the better understanding of the animals we are so fortunate to care for. I hope this better conveys our attention to detail and explains the level of care we provide these animals, so we are able to offer the healthiest aquatic life to our valued customers. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Kevin Kohen
Director of LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith
 
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Bravo

Bravo

Kevin,

This is the first time i have seen a business not only leave his forum to talk with customers but do it with such class. As i said this thread is not meant to flame or bash you guys. It was my hope that this thread would give way to maybe a two picture post on DD and some sory of ability to ease the shipment of these harder to care for anemones.

Im not sure what korden bags are but they sound great.

As well all know anemones are filled water and if they most of the time expell this water during shipment, Which is why i beleive most die from the conditions of the water.

I do salute you for venturing over and hope that this threads helps you and helps us.
 
I am very impressed with the response, but I think the point of this thread is still valid. I'm not sure why DD was singled out, but shipped anemones have a very low survival rate. I wish DD did not offer a money back guarantee on nems because I'd be willing to wager that with the exception of BTAs 80% or more die. Many people don't ask for the refund, and I'm sure there is still proft to be made. Nevertheless, I do agree that we need a source for nems if we as hobbyists are ever going to master their care. I hope that DD is not only mindful of how they care for these creatures but is also mindful of whether they are simply taking too many from the ocean. Buying a nem, imo, is not and should not be risk-free. They are a HUGE risk. Giving a replacement or money back gurantee eliminates that risk, thus making it possible for anyone to try keeping a nem regardless of their preparation for it.

W/O that guarantee, I would not have tried, and failed, twice with a magnifica. Don't get me wrong, I'm not downplaying my own responsibility. I really did feel that I was providing as good an environment as anyone could for them. I still failed. I figured the first was a fluke. I wonder how many people do.
 
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