drummereef's 180g in-wall build

[110galreef]

dzhuno
Wow that is an electric color looking acro! Hopefully you can save it!

 

[110galreef]

drum & everyone else that is looking at the hana alk checker:
I just tested & got about the numbers expected:

Salifert ~ 8.8 dKh
hanna 140ppm or 7.84 dKh

So about the 1.0dKh difference as seen on avg....some see higher spread.

 

[dzhuo]

Thx 100galreef! I hope I can say it too. I was under the impression that most alk test kits are made and calibrated with fresh water so pretty much all of them test roughly 10% higher. If that's the case (and apply to Salifert), then your 8.8 dKH reading on Salifert is really about 7.92 which the Hana Checker match fairly close. Btw, you are no longer using the powder reagent right?

Brett,
One more thing: are you running carbon? I also notice this type of algae or dino become more aggress when phosphate drops to lower. For example, before I treat RB I used to feed very heavy (as you probably recall ) and my phosphate (Hana Checker) measures 0.02. This stuff still grows on the tips but not as bad. During and after RB treatment, I feed less and phosphate dropped back to 0.00. I notice almost immediately it's growing faster than usual and more aggress. I think the tank is still too clean and the only way for the dino to gain nutrient is by attaching to the weaker acros and extract N & P directly from them.

 

[110galreef]

Thx 100galreef! I hope I can say it too. I was under the impression that most alk test kits are made and calibrated with fresh water so pretty much all of them test roughly 10% higher. If that's the case (and apply to Salifert), then your 8.8 dKH reading on Salifert is really about 7.92 which the Hana Checker match fairly close. Btw, you are no longer using the powder reagent right?

This was a new ALK tester which uses the liquid!

 

[drummereef]

Drum Roll.....Drummereef!........

I am shocked to see that high of PO4 straight from my RO/DI. What were you testing, i remember you said you were testing PO4 in you RO/Di water.

-This definitly shows why not to use TAP water!

This is a sweet checker and more effective reading than the 713, plus since it is reading in ppb it should be more accurate!!

Good results and thank you again for posting. Not surprised about the phosphate in the tap water but I guess it will vary depending on what part of the country you live. I am a little shocked at how much is getting through the RO/DI though. I presumed there would be nothing getting through after the DI stage but I guess it can after all. I would guess this nominal amount would still be consumed by bacteria in the tank, if carbon dosing, or would be absorbed by PO4 medias. Very interesting nonetheless.

I wonder now if that 17 ppb was mostly from the RO/DI water and not the salt mix like I assumed. I'll have to check mine and see what I find out.

Very interested in these results as well Josh. If you have time to post back it would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Well I am making RO/DI water right now for a WC, so I can measure PO4 after the water is mixed & se if it goes up for me from the 11ppb out ot the RO/DI.

IO is supposedly PO4 FREE! :worried:

Please do and report back for us. Very interested!

AA,zeobak,coral snow & phol xtra

Very nice afernandez! :thumbsup: Welcome to the addiction.

Brett,
Our tank must be similar. I am dealing with the exact same problem. Here is my piece. You can't see the stuff on the tips but it's there. Just super small that my camera can't capture them. Slowly it will turn into like your picture (one of frag already die from it)

I suspect this is dino and it attack acros which are weak or bleached. I wish I have a good solution but I don't. I am doing a 3 days lights off (today is second day) to see if this helps. A couple things I can assure you which are NOT the cause:

1. Flow. Mine isn't in a high direct flow area.
2. Alk swing. Mine has been very consistent at 7.7 to 7.8.

2 things that I notice which help:

1. Dark. It goes away when there is no light.
2. Feeding. When I feed, it tend to disappear but only momentarily.

Very interesting dzhuo. My frag does look marginally better today since I moved it away from the Vortech. I'm continuing to feed the tank quite a bit of food to boost nutrient levels as well. I'll keep you posted but I hope your frag makes it through this! I'm considering removing some of my pellets, not all, just a portion and see if I can raise P & N some more. I do agree the lack of nutrients, to the extent our tanks have at the moment, is probably not beneficial in the long run. A small amount of "controlled" nutrient might be a good thing.

Brett,
One more thing: are you running carbon? I also notice this type of algae or dino become more aggress when phosphate drops to lower. For example, before I treat RB I used to feed very heavy (as you probably recall ) and my phosphate (Hana Checker) measures 0.02. This stuff still grows on the tips but not as bad. During and after RB treatment, I feed less and phosphate dropped back to 0.00. I notice almost immediately it's growing faster than usual and more aggress. I think the tank is still too clean and the only way for the dino to gain nutrient is by attaching to the weaker acros and extract N & P directly from them.

Yes I'm still running carbon and agree, this stuff loves nutrient poor environments. I do notice a difference that it grows more aggressively after replacing the carbon. This is the only coral that has exhibited this reaction so far so I don't know how conclusive it is in regards to my tank but I'll keep you posted on the progress. Hopefully both of our corals will make a full recovery. I'm due for a carbon change so I plan on adding half as much to the reactor as I normally would.

 

[dzhuo]

This is the only coral that has exhibited this reaction so far so I don't know how conclusive it is in regards to my tank but I'll keep you posted on the progress.

Same thing here. I mentioned earlier that one of my frag had already killed by it. Apparently, they don't attack 2 corals at once. It slowly moves from coral to coral, kills it and then move on to another. I would suggest taking off the carbon all together. Have you seen the article on AA about biopellets and bacteria? Carbon has a fairly efficient rate of removing bacteria (compare to skimmer) and I suspect continuous long term use (especially with brands like ROX .8) could strip bacteria so much to a point it hurts the corals or the ecosystem. The only reason why I am still running carbon is to get the last bit of interceptor out of the tank and I plan to remove my carbon reactor at the end of my 3 days lights off.

Good luck and keep us post. I hope you beat it and save the coral!

 

[drummereef]

Same thing here. I mentioned earlier that one of my frag had already killed by it. Apparently, they don't attack 2 corals at once. It slowly moves from coral to coral, kills it and then move on to another. I would suggest taking off the carbon all together. Have you seen the article on AA about biopellets and bacteria? Carbon has a fairly efficient rate of removing bacteria (compare to skimmer) and I suspect continuous long term use (especially with brands like ROX .8) could strip bacteria so much to a point it hurts the corals or the ecosystem. The only reason why I am still running carbon is to get the last bit of interceptor out of the tank and I plan to remove my carbon reactor at the end of my 3 days lights off.

Good luck and keep us post. I hope you beat it and save the coral!

This is very interesting indeed. Thanks for the info. I read that article a while back as well. I stopped using ROX and went back to BRS Lignite for that very reason. Even ZEO doesn't recommend using aggressive carbons as they can strip the water, even though they do advocate running carbon with their system. I'm definitely cutting back on it this weekend when I do my water change. I run a fairly low flow rate through the reactor as well so maybe that will err in my favor... I'll keep you posted.

 

[dzhuo]

I will keep you post after I took my carbon reactor offline. I am hoping this will give the bacteria a better chance to grow and colonize my tank. Short of adding more fish, this is my only mean of increase bioload / nutrient.

Btw, I also double my dosage of Oyster-Feast and Roti-Feast but so far, I can't tell a difference.

 

[drummereef]

I will keep you post after I took my carbon reactor offline. I am hoping this will give the bacteria a better chance to grow and colonize my tank. Short of adding more fish, this is my only mean of increase bioload / nutrient.

Btw, I also double my dosage of Oyster-Feast and Roti-Feast but so far, I can't tell a difference.

Forgot to ask... Do you dose any bacteria supplements currently, or have you in the past? I've also noticed Oyster-Feast and Roti-Feast in relatively high doses doesn't pollute like other foods. I think it's fairly clean compared to other "oily" foods like Rod's which I've started to feed even though my fish don't really have a palette for.

 

[psteeleb]

How’s that acro doing?

Have you considered cutting a frag from a healthy branch just in case it is something besides the high flow that caused it?

 

[110galreef]

This is very interesting indeed. Thanks for the info. I read that article a while back as well. I stopped using ROX and went back to BRS Lignite for that very reason. Even ZEO doesn't recommend using aggressive carbons as they can strip the water, even though they do advocate running carbon with their system. I'm definitely cutting back on it this weekend when I do my water change. I run a fairly low flow rate through the reactor as well so maybe that will err in my favor... I'll keep you posted.

:hmm2:

So you switched the carbon! Ok, I will follow as I have been running the ROX.08 & i think brought up the ROX/biopellets issue to you in the article you sent me to read! Haha:frog:

How much carbon are you currently running?

I am still running the ROX .08, 2cups only, about 60gph flow thru the reactor & swapping out 3-4weeks. Just enuf low for the ever so slight tumble on the top.

I pulled the biopellets now about 6-7 weeks back and have been skimming moderate wet and have been feeding moderate to a touch on the heavy side and PO4 just tested .0153 and Nitrates are 0. :thumbsup: Fish load is moderate. 2 tangs, 5 chromis, Small Angel, fire fish, 6 line wrasse, 2 small clowns.

My SPS colors have been ok, but not stunning and growth seems just avg to a little slow......given params above they should be doing sweet....Cal steady 420-430 & ALk steady ~8.0

Ideas....add something extra for the corals.

Also it seems the film on acrylic needs wiped off about day 4 as it becomes somewaht apparent. How often are you needing to clean glass?

 

[110galreef]

Good results and thank you again for posting. Not surprised about the phosphate in the tap water but I guess it will vary depending on what part of the country you live. I am a little shocked at how much is getting through the RO/DI though. I presumed there would be nothing getting through after the DI stage but I guess it can after all. I would guess this nominal amount would still be consumed by bacteria in the tank, if carbon dosing, or would be absorbed by PO4 medias. Very interesting nonetheless.

Well currently I have yet to check the incoming TDS, but i have been averaging 1-2 TDS (usually 1) going into my Dual DI cartridges. So if RO membrane is about 98% effecient, i should have about 100TDS incoming which is pretty good.

Also the 3 prefilters are now about 5 mos old and have processed almost 5,000g. Plus my first DI filter is exhausted & the second is about 1/2 done. This maybe somewhat why i am getting 11ppb Phosphorus (.033ppm PO4) out of it with 0TDS. I plan to move cartride number #2 to #1 spot & then replace new DI in the second spot.

When should the 2 carbon block be changed? BRS unit. 12 mos or 10,000 gals processed whichever comes first? I plan to swap the prefilter every 4,000 gals.

Please do and report back for us. Very interested!

I will add salt this eve and let mix up till tomorrow & report PO4 later sat.

 

[cromedogg33]

I'm amazed at all the different results in what "appears" to be a few of the same style setups. This hobby will never cease to amaze me that everyone gets different results while running the same principals.

One thing that I would highly suggest Brett and I know you are hesitant to do so, is I think you should really start to consider what other fish you plan on adding to the tank and get that bioload quite a bit higher. I know you want to add fish that you enjoy and not just add fish to add them but I think my only difference between most everyone in this amazing thread is I'm heavy stocked and should be adding a few more of my favorite anthias in another couple weeks.

My skimmer is going absolute nuts right now and is pulling out extremely black skimmate and a lot of it on my underpowered skimmer. I'm starting to see a very very light amount of cyano and I think it's because my skimmer is a bit underpowered at this point, as well as where the cyano is a bit lower flow. I just know my pellets are doing an AMAZING job and my colors and growth are getting better by the day. It took a pink lemonade barely 1 week to go from browned out to extremely green base and starting to grow.

I'm dosing absolutely nothing at this point. I feed frozen food once daily along with pinches of pellets a few times a day with half a sheet of nori. Nothing designed for feeding corals directly other than fish poo. I have my PO4 down the .02 and this is down quite a bit from even a few weeks ago.

Just a thought!

 

[110galreef]

chromedogg....refresh me/us:

How much BP are you running & what brand?
How long have they been running?
Cal, Alk, Mg levels
and light schedule.

Any tank pics to share...

I really think I have my corals issues underway and want to add the BP back at a small amount to see if my colors come around. I seem to have everything in order, just colors still low or light?? Not sure if the BP will help or i need different lights, or if it's the ROX, or if it not enuf flow. But polys seem to be out onmost & slowly swaying.....I'm dosing nothing currently but a few drop of Lugols every now & then.

Brett I do totally agree with chrome about upping your fish collection. I would say your tank is stocked. There has to be a handful of little fish you want to add. Plus given your size tank, unless you add a very agressive fish first you should be fine to add later.

You need a bit more MOVEMENT!!:lol2:

 

[dzhuo]

Forgot to ask... Do you dose any bacteria supplements currently, or have you in the past? I've also noticed Oyster-Feast and Roti-Feast in relatively high doses doesn't pollute like other foods. I think it's fairly clean compared to other "oily" foods like Rod's which I've started to feed even though my fish don't really have a palette for.

No I don't dose any bacteria and have no plan to start (yet). The only supplements I add are 2-parts, kalk, Oyster-Feast (little bit of oil but much better compare to other frozen foods) and Roti-Feast (absolutely no oil). I am kind of old school and basically trying to follow what had been successfully for me in the past: stable params, nice flow and light. Nothing fancy and nothing cutting edge. I only started running GFO and GAC because Victor suspect my ATB is under performing because of "chemical" in the water preventing the skimmer to form a foam head. I think this is the biggest mistake I have made so far. Initially when I plan my setup, I have no intention to run carbon or GFO (at least not continuously and so aggressively for +6 months). I firmly believe my tank is too nutrient poor because of GFO, GAC, ATB and a fuge. The fact that I started with dead rock and sand also didn't help. Basically it's a box with sterile water.

 

[cromedogg33]

LOL 110

To be 100% honest with everyone here I haven't even checked my Ca or Mg yet. I really haven't found a reason to bother checking yet as my corals are no where near consuming more than my water changes. My dKH is holding steady ~8.

I'm running the same ecobak pellets Brett is and running the full reccomended amount. I believe it's 1000ml and I have seen a slight drop in total volume of pellets. They have been running from day 1 of the tank. I used MB7 to seed my completely dead tank. They have been running since ~December 2010.

I'm running the last of the EVS carbon I have and will probably move to some other brand of activated carbon as I'm not particular on the carbon I'm running, I have a hard time keeping my carbon bouncing around to my liking after about 3 days so I continue the search for one I really like.

My lighting start with 1 hour of 12 cree xr-e's then 1 hour of 12+10 more cree leds. I then turn on 1 of my SE 250's for 1 hour prior to my bluewave 7 coming on with the other two. I run halides for 6 hours each...so the tank has 7 total hours of MH light and then I do the opposite with the leds. 22 down to 12 to 0. So...my tank sees a total of 11 hours of light.

I still owe Brett some pictures and I'll eventually get to them I swear. Life is a bit hectic right now lol.

 

[dzhuo]

Also it seems the film on acrylic needs wiped off about day 4 as it becomes somewaht apparent. How often are you needing to clean glass?

I am sure you are addressing to Brett but are you talking about this?

Interestingly, I used to have to wipe them off every ~2 days when phosphate is 0.00. When I upped my feeding and phosphate goes up to 0.02, it grows slower and not as thick. I have no idea why but my guess is the additional food promoted other types of micro algae or organism that prey on these phytoplankton.

 

[110galreef]

No I don't dose any bacteria and have no plan to start (yet). The only supplements I add are 2-parts, kalk, Oyster-Feast (little bit of oil but much better compare to other frozen foods) and Roti-Feast (absolutely no oil). I am kind of old school and basically trying to follow what had been successfully for me in the past: stable params, nice flow and light. Nothing fancy and nothing cutting edge. I only started running GFO and GAC because Victor suspect my ATB is under performing because of "chemical" in the water preventing the skimmer to form a foam head. I think this is the biggest mistake I have made so far. Initially when I plan my setup, I have no intention to run carbon or GFO (at least not continuously and so aggressively for +6 months). I firmly believe my tank is too nutrient poor because of GFO, GAC, ATB and a fuge. The fact that I started with dead rock and sand also didn't help. Basically it's a box with sterile water.

Why GFO? what has your nitrate & PO4 been looking like.....
Do you plan to remove it long term.

I am torn between pellets or ocasional gfo or niether. I am going as simple as possible for now, but "want" to add the pellets...I think.

So far tho, just 10% WC every 2-3 weeks, 2 part dosing, moderate skimming and moderate feeing is keeping params about as ideal as needed for sps, just need the COLORS to show it:
Nitrate: 0
PO4: .01-.02
Cal: 410-430
Alk: avg 7.6-8.0, but plan to bump up a bit
Mg: 1320-1360

Ideas here ...anyone....

Brett you have lots of catching up from today!:bounce1:

 

[110galreef]

I am sure you are addressing to Brett but are you talking about this?

Interestingly, I used to have to wipe them off every ~2 days when phosphate is 0.00. When I upped my feeding and phosphate goes up to 0.02, it grows slower and not as thick. I have no idea why but my guess is the additional food promoted other types of micro algae or organism that prey on these phytoplankton.

Well....Brett & the handful others of us trying to iron out this biopellets, gfo, carbon, ULNS, SPS, "Majic Brew", supplements to add, which way to go dilema:fun4:

That is interesting that PO4 goes up & glass cleaning goes down....Hmmm

 

[110galreef]

LOL 110

To be 100% honest with everyone here I haven't even checked my Ca or Mg yet. I really haven't found a reason to bother checking yet as my corals are no where near consuming more than my water changes. My dKH is holding steady ~8.

I'm running the same ecobak pellets Brett is and running the full reccomended amount. I believe it's 1000ml and I have seen a slight drop in total volume of pellets. They have been running from day 1 of the tank. I used MB7 to seed my completely dead tank. They have been running since ~December 2010.

I'm running the last of the EVS carbon I have and will probably move to some other brand of activated carbon as I'm not particular on the carbon I'm running, I have a hard time keeping my carbon bouncing around to my liking after about 3 days so I continue the search for one I really like.

My lighting start with 1 hour of 12 cree xr-e's then 1 hour of 12+10 more cree leds. I then turn on 1 of my SE 250's for 1 hour prior to my bluewave 7 coming on with the other two. I run halides for 6 hours each...so the tank has 7 total hours of MH light and then I do the opposite with the leds. 22 down to 12 to 0. So...my tank sees a total of 11 hours of light.

I still owe Brett some pictures and I'll eventually get to them I swear. Life is a bit hectic right now lol.

Sounds like you have it working, so don't change anything! :dance:
PICS ASAP!!!

I at this point enjoy tinkering with the test kits, but I am sure the novelty will wear off soon & i will test more sparodic especially as I dial how the tank is consuming everything.