drummereef's 180g in-wall build

[drummereef]

Will do Brett. How is that blue frag doing? Has the STN stopped? A couple more of my mini colonies continue to decline. The 3-days lights off seems to have upset them but lyngbya is completely gone. I hope it won't return.

I am having a weird feeling that I might lose all of my colonies this way.

It's stable at this point. No more tissue loss and a couple places have healed. I removed a small branch that was dead but other than that it's looking OK. I hope your corals turn around!!

I agree with Green, I only ever ran carbon when there was a reason to (many of the reasons he pointed out). But I also never had my tank as nutrient free as yours Brett, I had a medium fish bioload. But with my current build I was considering running GFO and Carbon 24/7, guess I'll wait and see what this new experiment reveals. My tank is a long ways away, I'm still framing in the room, so I can exerciser some patience.

Also, I was reading Mr. Wilson's build thread in the LRT forum and they had an interesting discussion on skimming and should you be doing it 24/7. It's on this page and the next. But it's along the same lines of this discussion with carbon.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1811725&page=240

Oh and the good pictures are on page 139.

And axolotls are totally cool, my wife had one for years until she gave it away, they'll live a long time in captivity.

Yes, skimming should be 24/7 imo. This is very interesting about the temporary use of carbon. I'll keep looking into it.

Brett,
You should poll or dig into the SPS forum & see what the consensus and type of carbon SPS guys use.....

24/7? just randomly when gluing or making changes to corals? lignite??
And report back!

Oh and GREEN....
That is one awesome looking creature!!

I tried to search for a poll last night but for some reason I don't think you can do that. There's plenty of posts asking if people use it or not but I can't find a poll. Might have to post one like you suggest.

 

[Taqpol]

My understanding of activated carbon was that it could permanently bind (adsorb) multiple different chemical compounds. Secreted toxins have to physically interact with a target to cause harm, so even if the toxin is still "in" the water column it can't harm anything because it can't break free from the carbon itself. All of these chemicals are then exported away from your tank and into the trash can whenever you change out the carbon.

I personally have switched over to using the cheapest form of carbon BRS sells and then changing it out every two weeks. Another benefit to the more frequent changes is that brand new carbon will really polish the water of all the discoloring molecules in the tank and significantly increase your water clarity. If you wait months between carbon changes the dramatic increase in water clarity can actually be so severe in terms of increased light penetrance that you can shock your corals.

 

[drummereef]

My understanding of activated carbon was that it could permanently bind (adsorb) multiple different chemical compounds. Secreted toxins have to physically interact with a target to cause harm, so even if the toxin is still "in" the water column it can't harm anything because it can't break free from the carbon itself. All of these chemicals are then exported away from your tank and into the trash can whenever you change out the carbon.

I personally have switched over to using the cheapest form of carbon BRS sells and then changing it out every two weeks. Another benefit to the more frequent changes is that brand new carbon will really polish the water of all the discoloring molecules in the tank and significantly increase your water clarity. If you wait months between carbon changes the dramatic increase in water clarity can actually be so severe in terms of increased light penetrance that you can shock your corals.

Good thoughts Alex. Have you seen a visible difference with/without running carbon now that you use bio pellets? When I change my water it is crystal clear in the bucket. I attribute this to the bio pellets more than the carbon. I'll see how the water color looks visually over the next few water changes since I've taken the carbon off-line.

 

[drummereef]

UPDATE:


So a few posts ago I told you I was doing some new testing. This testing consists of running the system without carbon 24/7 and also reducing the volume of bio pellets in the SMR1 Pellet Reactor. I removed half the volume of pellets in the reactor so now I'm running 500ml. Tank looks good so far. A few diatoms in the sand bed and a couple light dustings of cyano on the rocks but nothing too bad. I'm assuming the little bit of cyano that popped up was directly related to reducing the bio pellets so I'm expecting it to go away in the near future. Coral polyp extension is great and colors are good as well. I'll continue to update with test results and post some pics of the corals as things progress.

 

[iwishtofish]

I am eager to follow the results of this test, particularly in regard to the absence of carbon and your water clarity!

 

[drummereef]

I am eager to follow the results of this test, particularly in regard to the absence of carbon and your water clarity!

I'll keep you posted. How's the cycle coming along? Any ammonia yet?

 

[iwishtofish]

I'll keep you posted. How's the cycle coming along? Any ammonia yet?

Thanks. Maybe detected .25 at one point, but I'm using dip strips (just for the cycle), and I realize they may not be precise. No nitrites or nitrates yet. At least other things are keeping me busy!

 

[drummereef]

Thanks. Maybe detected .25 at one point, but I'm using dip strips (just for the cycle), and I realize they may not be precise. No nitrites or nitrates yet. At least other things are keeping me busy!

:lol: Yeah, like I said, mine stayed at .25 for 2 weeks then I started seeing some significant changes. Hold strong and it will happen. No worries.

 

[110galreef]

Thanks. Maybe detected .25 at one point, but I'm using dip strips (just for the cycle), and I realize they may not be precise. No nitrites or nitrates yet. At least other things are keeping me busy!

forgot to post my cycle for you:

My ammonia never spiked above .25 really.
few days in: ammon: .25, nitrate: 2.5
1 weeks---: ammon: .25, nitrate: 2.5
2 weeks---: ammon: 25+, nitrate: 3.5, nitrite: .2, PO4: .03 hanna HI713 checker
2.5 weeks-: ammon: .25, nitrate: 5, nitrite: .1-.2
3 weeks---: ammon: .25, nitrates: 8, nitrite: 1
4 weeks---: ammon: .25, nitrates: 5, nitrites: .3-.4
5 weeks-: ammon: 00, nitrates: .5, nitrites:.025, PO4 .02 hanna HI713
6 weeks:--: ammon: 00, nitrates: 0, nitrites: 0

Also PO4 stayed .03 & under since, and has been ~ .01-.015 last few weeks.

Again all dry rock from start, ~ 15# good LR, shallow sand bed, MB7 per directions for a startup.

Also had 15% WC at week 2.5 & 15% WC at ~week 3.5

Hope this helps ya.....

 

[drummereef]

110g - It's obvious the MB7 had an effect on the ammonia from your cycle but I'm wondering if the 15lbs of cycled live rock had more of a limiting effect on the cycle overall... Even the nitrite was really low for a cycle it looks like. I used NO live rock in my system and had a major ammonia spike. So I'm guessing the bacteria in the live rock really gave your tank a kick start in good bacteria levels from the start.

 

[110galreef]

No idea....but between the LR and the MB7 it kept the ammonia spike Low for sure....
seemed to be a normal time cycle, just not extreme ammonia spike

The low PO4 all along & still suprised me as I took the dry rock straight from the box to my tank & figured there would be a lot of bound up Phosphates....granted i did have some HA about 4-6 weeks in, but was gone in short time with the lawnmowers help too.

No other cyano, algae's or issues either. :twitch:

must be some good dry rock from BRS.

 

[drummereef]

No idea....but between the LR and the MB7 it kept the ammonia spike Low for sure....
seemed to be a normal time cycle, just not extreme ammonia spike

Yes indeed! I think this is what I was getting at a couple pages ago... People questioning why I had the major algae cycle, and why the cycle took so long, etc... I think it all comes down to bacteria. If you use 100% cycled live rock there won't be a cycle and minimal algae events directly succeeding the cycle. But with mine and many others that had the same issues we started with no bacteria, dry rock and sand. Bacteria was introduced by natural occurrence and bottle based, thus taking longer to balance the system.

 

[110galreef]

The LR I used I know was good, and no bad pests. I had it in a 29g tank for over a yr w/ 2 little fish & just some light, & old Hoopty Aqua clear skimmer...it was a ghetto setup, but I kept the nicest pieces of LR i had from past tank, and 2 others that were tore down.

I even slightly cooked the rock, in a 35g drum, little heat, and no light for a period of 4 or 5 weeks. Seems like long enuf to kill off most stuff, settle out most of the trapped detritus and also keep the coraline still colorful! I had some other stuff, for longer than 5 weeks and after that it seems the coraline starts fading/dying off.

I bet 4 weeks or no light cooking, like 3 weeks of light, then another 4 weeks of no light would be about PERFECT LR to seed a tank with!

 

[drummereef]

The LR I used I know was good, and no bad pests. I had it in a 29g tank for over a yr w/ 2 little fish & just some light, & old Hopty Aqua clear skimmer...it was a ghetto setup, but I keptthe nicest pieces of LR i had from past tank, and 2 others that were tore down.

I even slightly cooked the rock, in a 35g drum, little heat, and no light for a period of 4 or 5 weeks. Seems like long enuf to kill off most stuff, settle out most of the trapped detritus and also keep the coraline still colorful! I had some other stuff, for longer than 5 weeks and after that it seems the coraline starts fading/dying off.

I bet 4 weeks or no light cooking, like 3 weeks of light, then another 4 weeks of no light would be about PERFECT LR to seed a tank with!

Yes, that would make some really nice rock to work with!

 

[drummereef]

So things are holding strong. 0.00 PO4 and undetectable NO3 running 500ml bio pellets and no carbon. PE is good and colors are solid. These results were only 3 hours after feeding with a mixture of Roti-Feast, Oyster-Feast, Frozen Cyclops, and AA's. We'll see how this goes for the next couple weeks.

 

[110galreef]

0.00 PO4 a few hrs after feeding all that! :eek2ANG u got one STERILE system......:dance:

TIME FOR MOOOOOOORRRRRREEEEEE FFFFFIIIIIIISSSSSSHHHHHHH

In case you FORGOT:lol:

Ohh & when u run out of reagents...you gotta get the HI 736 to replace the 713!!

 

[drummereef]

0.00 PO4 a few hrs after feeding all that! :eek2ANG u got one STERILE system......:dance:

TIME FOR MOOOOOOORRRRRREEEEEE FFFFFIIIIIIISSSSSSHHHHHHH

In case you FORGOT:lol:

Ohh & when u run out of reagents...you gotta get the HI 736 to replace the 713!!

:lol: My LFS is supposed to be getting a Hawaiian shipment in this week, so you know what that means... Potter's Angel. :beer:

 

[iwishtofish]

:lol: Yeah, like I said, mine stayed at .25 for 2 weeks then I started seeing some significant changes. Hold strong and it will happen. No worries.

Ok, thanks, Brett - I'll be monitoring closely. Maybe if you feed that future Potter's Angel really well, it won't pick at your corals much! :fish1:

110galreef, thank you for the cycle information!

 

[gary faulkner]

Ohh & when u run out of reagents...you gotta get the HI 736 to replace the 713!!

I was just getting ready to order more reagent packs for my 713. What would be the benefits of changing out to the checker?

TIA

 

[reefman86]

what program r u using for these drawings and where can i get it lol?

You ask and you shall receive. Here's some sketchup plans of the plumbing so far. Up for debate at this point.