drummereef's 180g in-wall build

[110galreef]

Fishmonkey.....

Brett and I had almost similar builds and timeframe. One thing I wish I did differently, I would have cycled my dry rock for a minimum of 6-months in a brute type tub. Brett was even more diligent then me and we both battled a cycling issue with the dry rock. Matter of fact, 15 months later and I am still fighting GHA.

HTH

Tegee, fishmonkey, brett

This has been a very interesting battle you two had to fight. What is interesting, is I have too started my tank with all dry rock, plus maybe like 15-20# good established LR. I also dosed MB7 from day one for about 4 weeks per the startup instructions. I had a slight HA outbreak on a few pieces of flat shelf rock about 5-6 weeks in, which I added a Lawnmower blenny and within 5 days was completly gone. Rock & tank have been algae free since so much so the lawnmower strved as are many of my snails.

Also I have never had PO4 above .03ppm and it really has been more in the .01-.02 range. I have only done basic 2 week WC's of 15%. I do plan to go to about 8% weekly WC's just to keep the trace minerals more consistent and see if the SPS color up better or grow a tad faster.

So odd two near similiar tanks can have such different out comes. Tank has been running now 7.5 mos.

I wonder if the MB7 from day 1 or the little bit of LR & bacteria on it made the difference?? Tegee did you use MB7 or any live rock??

I considered cooking my Dry rock, but figured getting the rock wet, contradicts some of my reason for easy aquascaping dry rock :lol:

 

[crvz]

I'm still experiencing some of the same algae issues on my marco rock, with a significant outbreak of bubble algae of all things. Knowing what I do now, I probably would have gone with a different rock solution (I even cured mine for 9 months in a dark container... amazing how much light changes the equation).

 

[cromedogg33]

It really is odd. I started mine roughly the exact same time and used marco rocks. I have 0 problems other than my bryopsis which was self inflicted but manageable.

It's wierd how there can be 3-4 people using the same method and see 3-4 different problems. Gotta love this hobby.

 

[fishmonkey]

What kind of Marco Rocks base rock did you use, crvz? I've heard only good things about that place, and this surprises me.

 

[crvz]

key largo base rock. In time I'm sure it will be fine, but it's just taking its sweet time.

 

[drummereef]

Wow. First of all, Drummer: GREAT TANK!!! But I would like to know: If you could go back and do it all over, what would you do differently. All the way back to when you made the stand, did the plumbing, put the water in, all that fun stuff.

Thank you fishmonkey. I wouldn't change much, even though some people would think I was crazy by saying so. It's been a great learning experience along the way. I really love the Phoenix bulbs so I could have saved some money and passed on the Radiums the first time around. The Marco Rock is hit and miss in my opinion. I think adding a little bit of established live rock while it's curing would be a good idea, but at the time I didn't want to introduce any pests. The stand, plumbing, etc has held up really well over the last year so that's all good. I would have, however, only put one center brace under the stand as it would provide more vertical space under the stand for the skimmer. Hope this helps.

hi brett! how are the phoenix bulbs & do you use any supplemental lighting w/ them? thanks

The Phoenix bulbs are awesome bagz. I really like them compared to the Radiums in both color and price. I'm not using any supplemental lighting yet but it's in the future plan to add some blue LEDs to the mix.

I'm still experiencing some of the same algae issues on my marco rock, with a significant outbreak of bubble algae of all things. Knowing what I do now, I probably would have gone with a different rock solution (I even cured mine for 9 months in a dark container... amazing how much light changes the equation).

I have a few patches of bubble algae too crvz. Honestly I'm down to thinking Marco Rock is very hit and miss as far as quality goes. Seems like some people get really "clean" rock and others like us get really "clean looking" rock. I don't think there's much we could have done to avoid the algae/cyano/dino outbreaks but let time do it's thing. I do think adding a bit of established live rock helps but there's the obvious risks involved there as well as you know. I think it just takes time for the rock to fully cure and go through all the cycles it's destined to go through. I wish there was a company who supplied completely cycled dry rock that has been seeded from a live rock culture, I would have payed the extra $$ in exchange for the lack of sleep over the last year. :lol:

 

[bagz727]

The Phoenix bulbs are awesome bagz. I really like them compared to the Radiums in both color and price. I'm not using any supplemental lighting yet but it's in the future plan to add some blue LEDs to the mix.

cool brett, i plan on trying the phoenix bulbs next!!! from your taste i know this bulbs wont disappoint!!! im using the nueco aquasrtar 14k bulbs & find it a little on the yellow side. i think the phoenix will hit the spot!!!

 

[crvz]

I have a few patches of bubble algae too crvz. Honestly I'm down to thinking Marco Rock is very hit and miss as far as quality goes. Seems like some people get really "clean" rock and others like us get really "clean looking" rock. I don't think there's much we could have done to avoid the algae/cyano/dino outbreaks but let time do it's thing. I do think adding a bit of established live rock helps but there's the obvious risks involved there as well as you know. I think it just takes time for the rock to fully cure and go through all the cycles it's destined to go through. I wish there was a company who supplied completely cycled dry rock that has been seeded from a live rock culture, I would have payed the extra $$ in exchange for the lack of sleep over the last year. :lol:

plausible. I actually used a lot of live rock from my other system with the new tank, but it wasnt enough to keep some of these issues at bay. I'll let you know how the emerald crabs do with the bubble algae, which is pretty significant at this time.

 

[drummereef]

The Phoenix bulbs are awesome bagz. I really like them compared to the Radiums in both color and price. I'm not using any supplemental lighting yet but it's in the future plan to add some blue LEDs to the mix.

cool brett, i plan on trying the phoenix bulbs next!!! from your taste i know this bulbs wont disappoint!!! im using the nueco aquasrtar 14k bulbs & find it a little on the yellow side. i think the phoenix will hit the spot!!!

:thumbsup: The Phoenix won't disappoint.

plausible. I actually used a lot of live rock from my other system with the new tank, but it wasnt enough to keep some of these issues at bay. I'll let you know how the emerald crabs do with the bubble algae, which is pretty significant at this time.

Thanks Chris. I hate manually siphoning the bubble algae as I think it tends to spread it even faster, but I guess the emerald crabs can do the same thing too. But, I like the idea of a natural predator of the stuff.

 

[tegee]

Brett....

What have you found works best for GHA? Also, do you think raising the Mag level will help like it helps on other nuisance algae???

Thx......

 

[cromedogg33]

Brett....

What have you found works best for GHA? Also, do you think raising the Mag level will help like it helps on other nuisance algae???

Thx......

I think we'll find out...I also believe it's not raising Mag in general, it's using kent's tech m to raise it. I think the concensus it the product has some sort of impurity of heavy metals presumably copper. It also isn't a matter of raising your mag to say 1650 but rather a jump of 12-15% I believe.

I tend to also believe it's copper as well as it tends to kill shrimp/snails with this method. I think snails start to die off at 35 ppt and shrimp in the 60ppt range. With the tech-m I thinkt he 15% increase puts you in the 60ppt range of copper.

Mine shipment from Premium arrives tuesday and the battle against bryopsis for ME starts. Hopefully Brett can document the affects on other algae.

 

[fishmonkey]

Thanks for the info Drummer. YOU NEED MORE FISHIES AND CORALS!!!

 

[psteeleb]

Thanks for the info Drummer. YOU NEED MORE FISHIES AND CORALS!!!

I second that motion

 

[henrystyle]

So you guys think the marco rock is the cause of all the algae outbreaks?
I think its a cross between the rock and instant ocean salt mix. Seems like the algae increased once I started using instant ocean.

 

[psteeleb]

although the rock is somewhat the cause I would not blame it. Using dry base rock just prolongs the inevitable.

from Eric B

What's left? A tank with limited denitrification (because its slow and aerobic things happen fast) and a whole lot of other stuff in the water. Who comes to the rescue and thrives during these cycles? The next fastest growing groups...cyanobacteria, single celled algae, protists, ciliates, etc. Then they do their little cycle thing. And then the turf algae take advantage of the nutrients (the hair algae stage). Turfs get mowed down by all the little amphipods that are suddenly springing up because they have a food source. ......................................................

So, the algae successions kick in, and eventually you have a good algal biomass that handles nitrogen, produces oxygen through photosynthesis, takes up the metabolic CO2 of all the other heterotrophs you can’t see, the bacteria have long settled in and also deal with nutrients, and the aquarium keeper has probably stopped adding fish for a spell because they keep dying. Maybe they started to visit boards and read books and get the knack of the tank a bit. They have probably also added a bunch of fix-it-quick chemicals that didn’t help any, either. Also, they are probably scared to add corals that would actually help with the photosynthesis and nutrient uptake, or they have packed in corals that aren't tolerant of those conditions.

for the link - I think he does an excelent job describing what a tank needs to go through to "Mature", and is why I think Brett needs to get some life in his fuge to help push him through the cycles
http://www.theculturedreef.com/thecycle.htm

 

[fishmonkey]

Thanks for the good read, psteeleb.

 

[crvz]

Yep, that has been my conclusion as well, Pete. I don't think there is anything in the rock that is unique and causes this issue, simply that it takes significantly longer to get to that mature state.

 

[lolgranny]

Brett! This is amazing, Im going to be working on a 180g in wall soon so it looks like i have ALOOOOOOOOOOT more posts to read through. I wish i lived closer i would take a drive over and check out everything.

Keep up the good work bud!

 

[henrystyle]

Read makes sense. Now that I think of it there is nothing you can do to speed up that process. All you can do is wait.

 

[110galreef]

crvz, psteeble, chromedogg, bret, etc.....

Those that are having the algae or various issues did you use base rock at all? I wonder if that is part of the issue?

The majority of my Rock was the Pukani Dry rock and is VERY light & porous.
I was probably like:
55% Pukani,
15% Shelf
15% Tonga
10% Fiji
5% Established LR.
Dry sand

The only rock that got any of the HA was the flat shelf or maybe a piece or two of the Tonga. Bothg of which are very dense. Maybe the DENSE rocks, shelf, tonga, base, etc are the culprits?