drummereef's 180g in-wall build

My .02....

quick as noted above VHO is best for acctinic. I to planned that originally....

1st) You have MH full spectrum (blue skewed) that covers all your bases, provides more than enuf light to grow your reef. Also it is primarily the color spectrum you want. In essence the REEF has all it needs.

2nd) YOU want some more pop. VHO, T-5, and LED all good choices wth Pros & con's. Go with what fits your system and will make it more enjoyable and easier to maintain, not make harder.

3rd) You are over thinking the RB spectrum in relation to the peak of a full spectrum MH bulb. Also the 30 LED's at 700mA relative to 750w MH will do little. ALSO the UV LED's out put is so small that if you swap say 10 of the RB's for UV you won't notice anything. You would need all 30 UV and even at that would probably be not noticeable.

SO in closing:
PICK what fits your system best. Whether it's:

2 rails left to right of 30 RB LED' ,
4 -6 rails of 30 LED running front to back next to MH's
2 140-w VHO's running left to right
2- 80w T-5's running left to right
4 18-24w T-5's runninf front to back next to MH's

All will work and all will do about exactly the same, just requiring different instalation methods, taking up different amounts of space, different wiring methods, some dimmable & some not, some requiring more bulb replacement cost, and some more custimizable with spectrum colors(different bulb choices.)

I say only worry about:
1.) ease of instal
2.) will be in my way or not,
3.) custimizable placement (target certain areas vs empty sand) PRO for LED!
3.) ongoing replacement cost,
4.) dimmable

these really should only a last thought:
-start up cost, all about the same now adays
-spectrum enhancemnt (MH's cover allthat and you can easily swap a lower K bulb if needed)


Oh and RB CREE LED's are your best for acctinic.
If you really want to bang your head like I did,:headwally: you can even order different bins of the same LED that are batch tested to a specific spectrum and very tight to it as well as the highest lm/watt(definitly want that bin for effeciency). You can even mix up the batches and bang your head more! :headwalls:

I believe bin Q04 is the highest lm/watt and tightest spectrum (for reefers). It is pretty much 450-455 nm only. While many may be targeted at 450, but wander 20-30 nm either way of 450nm.
 
My braces are black, but I could certainly position them tighter (or even at the edge) to the braces to minimize spotlighting. What's your thoughts on color when supplementing halides? Is there a specific color you've used or read that gets similar efflorescence to VHO Actinic bulbs?


Halides in the upper range (14-20k) provide what I consider a great spectrum in them selves. The difference in the VHO actinic look as compared to the RB LED's is noticeable. The RB LED's definitely provide more 'pop' as long as you have enough of them. VHO actinic provides a softer and more natural glow with a broader spectrum but not near the pop you can get with the narrow spectrum LED's. If you want to add or supplement some white spectrum I'd consider some whites in the 6500 to 10k range and just use them as a high noon type setting (~4 hrs a day).
 
My .02....

quick as noted above VHO is best for acctinic. I to planned that originally....

1st) You have MH full spectrum (blue skewed) that covers all your bases, provides more than enuf light to grow your reef. Also it is primarily the color spectrum you want. In essence the REEF has all it needs.

2nd) YOU want some more pop. VHO, T-5, and LED all good choices wth Pros & con's. Go with what fits your system and will make it more enjoyable and easier to maintain, not make harder.

3rd) You are over thinking the RB spectrum in relation to the peak of a full spectrum MH bulb. Also the 30 LED's at 700mA relative to 750w MH will do little. ALSO the UV LED's out put is so small that if you swap say 10 of the RB's for UV you won't notice anything. You would need all 30 UV and even at that would probably be not noticeable.

SO in closing:
PICK what fits your system best. Whether it's:

2 rails left to right of 30 RB LED' ,
4 -6 rails of 30 LED running front to back next to MH's
2 140-w VHO's running left to right
2- 80w T-5's running left to right
4 18-24w T-5's runninf front to back next to MH's

All will work and all will do about exactly the same, just requiring different instalation methods, taking up different amounts of space, different wiring methods, some dimmable & some not, some requiring more bulb replacement cost, and some more custimizable with spectrum colors(different bulb choices.)

I say only worry about:
1.) ease of instal
2.) will be in my way or not,
3.) custimizable placement (target certain areas vs empty sand) PRO for LED!
3.) ongoing replacement cost,
4.) dimmable

these really should only a last thought:
-start up cost, all about the same now adays
-spectrum enhancemnt (MH's cover allthat and you can easily swap a lower K bulb if needed)


Oh and RB CREE LED's are your best for acctinic.
If you really want to bang your head like I did,:headwally: you can even order different bins of the same LED that are batch tested to a specific spectrum and very tight to it as well as the highest lm/watt(definitly want that bin for effeciency). You can even mix up the batches and bang your head more! :headwalls:

I believe bin Q04 is the highest lm/watt and tightest spectrum (for reefers). It is pretty much 450-455 nm only. While many may be targeted at 450, but wander 20-30 nm either way of 450nm.

OK, I'm convinced... Royal Blue LED is the way to go in my situation. :) All good points here and the more I researched the more I found the same - it's really VHO against LED when supplementing actinic with Halides. I think in the long run I'll be happier with an LED supplementation and I will be able to upgrade/adjust as necessary especially if I use the JBJ modular holders. I will also request the Q04 BIN from reefledlights when I go to order. Thanks again for the great info 110g. :)

Halides in the upper range (14-20k) provide what I consider a great spectrum in them selves. The difference in the VHO actinic look as compared to the RB LED’s is noticeable. The RB LED's definitely provide more 'pop' as long as you have enough of them. VHO actinic provides a softer and more natural glow with a broader spectrum but not near the pop you can get with the narrow spectrum LED’s. If you want to add or supplement some white spectrum I’d consider some whites in the 6500 to 10k range and just use them as a high noon type setting (~4 hrs a day).

Excellent ideas as well Pete. 110g had mentioned adding the high-noon type LEDs to his setup. That might have to be phase 2 of the build as it would require a separate driver but I think it's something that would be quite beneficial, especially if I stick with the 20k Radiums as my primary light source. :)
 
check these out, let me know if you have questions...

http://pct.cree.com/

Shows you that at say 700mA the XT-E RB's will have a vF of 3.208 and use 2.245 watts
This is how you can see on the inventronics you can push 15-16 led's and use only about 33.7w
or 67.5w for all 30!

The XM-L (U2 bin/highest lum/watt) with 15 at 1300mA produces 7,845 lum, at 61.5w (4.014w x 15)

Cool you can see how much more light the different bins get you or how you get about 30% more light from the XM-L CW opposed to the XP-G CW

Usually you can select the flux(bin) and see how many lumens as well. showing empty now???

all cree LED's
http://www.cutter.com.au/categories.php?cat=Cree+LEDS

Bin info:

pg 20 for RB--you can see that Q04 is the tightest (450-455 Nm of the brightest bin)

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/C...odules/XLamp/Data and Binning/XLampXTE_BL.pdf


Also I don't believe you can select bins with reefledlights....But they will tell you what Bin they are.

I don't see the XT-E RB's on cutters site, but I know in the past I have emailed them and they will get you a price and eta for a specific bin if it is not in stock!

Let me know if you have any questtions.

Also if you do add the High noon, I'd get the XM-L in CW driven at 1300mA and play with the bins if you prefer a warmer color spectrum opposed to go to the WW or NW! YUK!!

Xmas $$ may be getting me some new LEDS!!
 
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OK cool - Most of that makes sense. :lol: Bill at ReefLed claims his BIN (D36) is 445-455nm, but I don't know if that's just anecdotal based upon the BIN comparison link you posted? I'd prefer to buy from one source just to save on shipping and complexity... Wouldn't Cutter's break the bank on shipping since the are in Australia? :fun5:

So far my list of items for the project is as follows - let me now what you think?

30 Cree X-E RB LEDs
30 Carclo Ripple Wide Optics
30 BJB Solderless Connectors
30 BJB Optics Holders
2 Hyperon (Inventronics) 700mA 40 Watt Drivers
1 Arctic Alumina Thermal Paste
60 #4 Self Tapping Screws
20g Solid Core Wire

...1" Aluminum Heatsinks, some accessories, etc...
 
OK cool - Most of that makes sense. :lol: Bill at ReefLed claims his BIN (D36) is 445-455nm, but I don't know if that's just anecdotal based upon the BIN comparison link you posted? I'd prefer to buy from one source just to save on shipping and complexity... Wouldn't Cutter's break the bank on shipping since the are in Australia? :fun5:

So far my list of items for the project is as follows - let me now what you think?

30 Cree X-E RB LEDs
30 Carclo Ripple Wide Optics
30 BJB Solderless Connectors
30 BJB Optics Holders
2 Hyperon (Inventronics) 700mA 40 Watt Drivers
1 Arctic Alumina Thermal Paste
60 #4 Self Tapping Screws
20g Solid Core Wire

...1" Aluminum Heatsinks, some accessories, etc...

I am not 100% positive on the exacts of the Bin's, as there is flux, brightness, chromacity, dominate wavelengths, etc....But i belive by just knowing the D36 you have the max flux LED bin, but not the tightest Dominate Wave Length at 450?

By specifying the Q04 you get the best of both. Pretty sure. It's proabably a crap shoot really either way. And out EYE can never tell a difference. Just the Super Uber Duper Sensetive gadget measuring this stuff!! But atleast your getting one of the best CREE RB LED's out there.

Also ordeing from cutter isn't too much more expensive on shipping, does take about a week longer. But I get ordering from one place! Bill is a lot of help too.

List looks good, u doing any sort of splah guard? You also may want to just order and extra LED or two incase you fry one.

Oh and i think u need a cable from Neptune to connect to the drivers.
 
I am not 100% positive on the exacts of the Bin's, as there is flux, brightness, chromacity, dominate wavelengths, etc....But i belive by just knowing the D36 you have the max flux LED bin, but not the tightest Dominate Wave Length at 450?

By specifying the Q04 you get the best of both. Pretty sure. It's proabably a crap shoot really either way. And out EYE can never tell a difference. Just the Super Uber Duper Sensetive gadget measuring this stuff!! But atleast your getting one of the best CREE RB LED's out there.

Also ordeing from cutter isn't too much more expensive on shipping, does take about a week longer. But I get ordering from one place! Bill is a lot of help too.

List looks good, u doing any sort of splah guard? You also may want to just order and extra LED or two incase you fry one.

Oh and i think u need a cable from Neptune to connect to the drivers.

OK I have a solution... led-group-buy is shipping Q04. :) They actually have everything except for the same optics as reefledlights. Bill recommended the Carclo Ripple Wide's for my application. led-group-buy has a generic 60 degree optic but I don't know if it fits in the JBJ holder - and I was farily convinced the Carclo will deliver more PAR from what I've read.

What's your thoughts and thoughts on my parts list?
 
OK I have a solution... led-group-buy is shipping Q04. :) They actually have everything except for the same optics as reefledlights. Bill recommended the Carclo Ripple Wide's for my application. led-group-buy has a generic 60 degree optic but I don't know if it fits in the JBJ holder - and I was farily convinced the Carclo will deliver more PAR from what I've read.

What's your thoughts and thoughts on my parts list?

Parts list looks good. I'd just order an extra LED or 2 in case you fry one.
Also I think you need a cable from Neptune for the apex to drivers for dimming...

Splash Guard??


Order up LED's from led gbuy.....
I believe reefledlights has the drivers a few $$ cheaper. Could be wrong. But atleast get the base, holder, and lenses from reefledlights. They seem to be a better design for Cree. Plus makes easy to swap in the ripple medium or something else if you want down the road.

Just split up what you need between the 2 and you should be all set. That was my plan last I looked!
 
Parts list looks good. I'd just order an extra LED or 2 in case you fry one.
Also I think you need a cable from Neptune for the apex to drivers for dimming...

Splash Guard??


Order up LED's from led gbuy.....
I believe reefledlights has the drivers a few $$ cheaper. Could be wrong. But atleast get the base, holder, and lenses from reefledlights. They seem to be a better design for Cree. Plus makes easy to swap in the ripple medium or something else if you want down the road.

Just split up what you need between the 2 and you should be all set. That was my plan last I looked!

That was my other question... What exactly is needed for controlling the drivers with the Apex? I have the Apex Lite and it has the I/O port. I'm assuming I need the Neptune I/O Breakout Box (or the DIY medusa from reefledlights)? Anything else needed for Apex control?
 
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The I/O box is for floats & stuff.

I am pretty sure this is all you need to hook up to the drivers 0-10 inputs. Goes into the variable speed ports. http://premiumaquatics.com/store/me...de=PA&Product_Code=NEP-DIMCAB2&Category_Code=

Now get ordering!!

The lite has one i think? My APEX has 4 variable speed ports....

EDIT...NOPE....
You need this now!! CRAP
http://premiumaquatics.com/store/me...e_Code=PA&Product_Code=NEP-VDM&Category_Code=

Son of a.... :lol: I had a feeling I needed the VDM Module because of the Apex Light limitation. Then do I need 1 or 2 of the cables?? I'll have 2 drivers so I'm guessing 2 cables right - one for each driver?

What is the 8-Pin Medusa thingy for reefledlights sells? It's supposed to be a DIY I/O Breakout Box. What's the difference?
 
Well you only need one if you plan to have both drivers(rails) run at the same level at the same time. I believe one cable use 2 ports and has 2 leads. So u could run both independently or have the spare if u decide to add some more for high noon punch.

Not sure on the medusa thingy. Looks like a DIY breakout box. The Neptune Breakout box is a pain to snap wires into it and only accepts tiny like 22guage higher wire. And the tabs snap off easy. Plus only 1 ground spot. The medusa thing probably 1 is a few bucks cheaper ad 2 much easier to attach things.

Also the I/O stuff is basically for switches Open or Closed circuit. not for variable stuff like 0-10v.

Before you order anything extra, check with Bill on the Medusa thing and Neptune on the VDM and cable.
 
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I believe apex have the ports 4/8 on the DB8 which can just be controlled to ramp up/down. You shouldn't need anything special or so I thought. I thought the VDM was only if you wanted to control something like an AI Sol and wanted seperate control of the colors. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
 
I believe apex have the ports 4/8 on the DB8 which can just be controlled to ramp up/down. You shouldn't need anything special or so I thought. I thought the VDM was only if you wanted to control something like an AI Sol and wanted seperate control of the colors. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

DB8? what is a BD8.....base module? EB8(energy bar 8)

My understanding is that the VDM (needed for the Jr or Lite which Brett has Lite) as they have no variable speed ports on the base module(like the Apex base module has 4 variable ports), is used for a bunch of things from pumps, AI sol or about anything you can ramp up and down via a 0-10v....

Hence these dimmable drivers work off 0-10v input for 10%-100% dimming.
http://www.neptunesystems.com/led-dimming-module/

same for the pumps:
http://www.neptunesystems.com/products/expansion-modules/variable-speed-pump-control/

Neptune has really enhanced their site! Now they just need to get the App support for Android!!:bounce3:
Also Chrome, did you just get fixed drivers then for your setup?
 
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