drummereef's 180g in-wall build

[drummereef]

Looking good. It's nice to finally see the rock after all that algae. I might have missed it, but how's the tang?

Thanks Mike. Look back on page 71, I took a couple pics of the tang eating again! He's doing much better. His gill still look a little irritated but that might take some time for him to get over. Most important was that he got his appetite back. He's been eating like a whale. :lol:

 

[bigtony901]

Wow 72 pages later and a great looking tank and setup im looking forward to the progress.

 

[110galreef]

what amount of flow....(ballpark) is going thru the reactors?

 

[drummereef]

Wow 72 pages later and a great looking tank and setup im looking forward to the progress.

Thanks bigtony.

what amount of flow....(ballpark) is going thru the reactors?

It's hard to say for sure but I'm assuming around 300gph or so. Seems like there are inconsistencies in flow rate from different reactors so most important is just getting enough flow to gently tumble the pellets.

 

[platax88]

Hey Brett, I should be receiving my ecoBak later this week for my 180gal. Do you think it's safe to add all 1lt at once? My nutrient levels are already low so I don't foresee going through an algae bloom. Whatcha think?

 

[Greenmaster]

Sorry Brett I just love to answer questions... The biggest question is what would you lose if you had a bacteria bloom and all the oxygen in the water was consumed. Do you feel the lessened work is worth the risk? Are you going to be able to watch it closely so, if you see stress in the fish or the start of a bacteria bloom, you can take the pellets offline?

 

[drummereef]

Hey Brett, I should be receiving my ecoBak later this week for my 180gal. Do you think it's safe to add all 1lt at once? My nutrient levels are already low so I don't foresee going through an algae bloom. Whatcha think?

I started with 1/2 and added 1/4th each following week, so it was a 3 week process. You might be OK adding it all at once but there's no rush in getting the pellets seeded so it's safer to add them slowly imo. Most cases of bacteria blooms are uneventful and the inhabitants will make it through just fine. But why risk it...

 

[platax88]

I started with 1/2 and added 1/4th each following week, so it was a 3 week process. You might be OK adding it all at once but there's no rush in getting the pellets seeded so it's safer to add them slowly imo. Most cases of bacteria blooms are uneventful and the inhabitants will make it through just fine. But why risk it...

Thanks, I'll take your and Greenmaster's advice. I'll start with 1/2 then 1/4 each week

 

[drummereef]

Thanks, I'll take your and Greenmaster's advice. I'll start with 1/2 then 1/4 each week

Sounds like a solid plan. :thumbsup:

 

[drummereef]

UPDATE:


Nutrient levels are still staying strong going into the 4th week using ecoBAK. Jon at Warner said between 4-6 weeks was when they really start to kick in so I'm expecting to see a reduction of algae on the glass and hopefully the cyano spots to disappear... fingers crossed.

Test results as of today:

PO4 - 0.00 ppm
NO3 - 1 ppm

 

[allsps40]

How do the ecoBAK pellets work? To me it just seems like another surface area for bacteria to colonize , like a bio wheel or live rock. Is there anything special about it? Great thread! Very clean and well thought out. Makes me want to do my future 90-120 gallon in wall.

 

[drummereef]

How do the ecoBAK pellets work? To me it just seems like another surface area for bacteria to colonize , like a bio wheel or live rock. Is there anything special about it? Great thread! Very clean and well thought out. Makes me want to do my future 90-120 gallon in wall.

Thanks for the kind words allsps40. Yes, the pellet medias (also know as solid vodka dosing) are a place for bacteria to colonize and multiply but there is a distinct difference between pellet systems and bio wheels. The pellets are made from a biodegradable polymer that acts as a food source for the bacteria. Over time the pellets will have to be replenished as the bacteria consumes them. The bacteria uses the carbon from the pellets to consume NO3 and PO4. In essence, the more beneficial bacteria the less excess nutrients in the system. The surplus of bacteria that is created also allows a transport for organics to be taken up by the skimmer, thus producing a more robust skimmate. Bio-Wheels, inherently because of the wet/dry movement, did not allow full denitrification to take place. Same with wet-dry bio balls, thus most encountered nitrate problems as a result. Live rock is obviously good means to house nitrifying bacteria but I wouldn't consider it a replenishing "food source" for those bacteria. Neither is it an optimal environment for biomass export, which is the nuts and bolts of a pellet/vodka system.

Here's a much more detailed article to read if you are considering either pellets or vodka dosing. Very informative.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

 

[henrystyle]

How important is the tumbling motion of the bio pellets?

 

[110galreef]

Also I see you have your biopeelets drain going right to the skimmer pump. Have you noticed much different skimmate? Also why not drain your carbon reactor to the skimmer pump as well?


One more thing.....I read this off WM product for the Bio pellets......
500ml of Biopellets /100g water volume....so you are about right w/ 1L ( I will have about 225g setup....maybe 1.25L)
However it says 100gph flow for every 100ml.....that means you should have like 1000gph going thru that reactor! :-O I think you said you only had like 300gph going thru the reactor....

I was planning to run an external skimmer, feed it directly off this reactor, with the ballpark of 600-700gph. This is the ideal flow for this skimmer. Does this sound to be enuf flow (too much/too little) for a tad over 1L of media? Any issues you see feeding skimmer direct like this??

Lastly how long do these last or how often do you need to replenish....Do they just slowly disappear?

 

[drummereef]

How important is the tumbling motion of the bio pellets?

Most important is the pellets are getting flow through them. Since we are dealing with a bacteria rich environment oxygen is needed for the survival and growth of the bacteria. What you don't want to happen is the reactor go anoxic, or oxygen depleted. This will cause the bacteria to die off in large amounts causing toxic hydrogen sufide gas as a result. So gently tumbling the pellets will allow oxygen to saturate the entire volume while also sloughing off dead bacteria for the skimmer to export. There may be other benefits but to my knowledge these are most important.

Also I see you have your biopeelets drain going right to the skimmer pump. Have you noticed much different skimmate? Also why not drain your carbon reactor to the skimmer pump as well?


One more thing.....I read this off WM product for the Bio pellets......
500ml of Biopellets /100g water volume....so you are about right w/ 1L ( I will have about 225g setup....maybe 1.25L)
However it says 100gph flow for every 100ml.....that means you should have like 1000gph going thru that reactor! :-O I think you said you only had like 300gph going thru the reactor....

I was planning to run an external skimmer, feed it directly off this reactor, with the ballpark of 600-700gph. This is the ideal flow for this skimmer. Does this sound to be enuf flow (too much/too little) for a tad over 1L of media? Any issues you see feeding skimmer direct like this??

Lastly how long do these last or how often do you need to replenish....Do they just slowly disappear?

I have noticed less bacteria on the water surface in the sump by placing the effluent of the ecoBAK reactor right at the skimmer volute. Before there was a "mulm" that was developing in the return area of the sump that I presumed to be excess bacteria. That has subsided now that I believe the skimmer is sucking most of the effluent up. I always thought you wanted to "recycle" the post-polished water from a carbon reactor back to the system. Since the carbon takes in organics the effluent should be (in theory) cleaner than the source water. That's the water I want going back into the systems water column, not in the skimmer cup.

That's why I wouldn't get caught up in GPH with these pellet reactors. Some barely need a trickle, others need lots of flow to keep them suspended. I think it has a lot to do with bacteria production and how "gummy" the pellets get. It's really about watching the pellets and making sure they are gently tumbling, whatever the flow rate might be. I'd be leery about being dependent on the ecoBAK reactor flow to feed a skimmer since you might have to drastically adjust the pellet reactor's flow rate independent from the skimmer. I would plumb them separate to give you the option of adjusting either flow rates. It might work, but I personally like keeping stuff independent for a variety of reasons.

From what Jon said, the pellets usually have to be replenished between 6 months and a year. The bacteria will consume them so yes they will slowly dissolve over time.

 

[drummereef]

UPDATE:


Half way through my 4th week using ecoBAK and things are staying strong. There's been a small resurgence of algae on the rocks but nothing the Turbos haven't been able to take care of. The sand bed still has some algae growing on it but nothing too serious. I'm slowly removing some sand during every water change. I thought the sand might move around with the Vortechs but this stuff stays put so I can get rid of some excess. I only want a dusting of sand, just enought to cover the bottom. I'm still feeding Rod's 2x daily and also put some red and green Nori on the clip 1x daily for Mr Tang. Nutrients are staying put...

I'm considering dosing some bacteria but haven't made a final decision on that yet. Either MB7 or Special Blend. Thought it might give this algae cycle a last kick in the pants but don't know if I want to go that route yet or just let the ecoBAK continue to do it's magic.


Latest test results:

NO3 < 1 ppm API Test Kit
PO4 0.00 Hanna Checker

 

[drummereef]

The last couple days my Lyretail Anthias hasn't been eating as usual. He at like a pig for weeks but his appetite tapered off a couple days ago. He comes out to feed but just swims around. I've been feeding Rod's 2x daily but I'd like to cut that back and see if it's contributing to the algae blooms. I tried more PE Mysis tonight but doesn't seemed to be interested in that. I also have Prime Reef Flakes and Pellets. My Yellow Tang goes after both of those but the Lyretail just seems uninterested. Any ideas???

 

[drummereef]

I just read a thread in the reef fishes section about blackworms and how they can entice finicky eaters. Maybe these can solve your problem:http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1907090&highlight=black+worms
On a different note, do you think this could be related to your tang's recent unwillingness to eat? Maybe flukes or something?

Hard to say nigiri. He ate like a pig for weeks and now hardly anything. I'm going to try some Rods again tonight and see what happens. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[psteeleb]

also try some artic pods - my anthias always went nuts for the stuff

 

[Tyrenlds]

try smaller items. PE mysis is pretty large.... just get some off brand stuff, it tends to be smaller. Also cyclopseeze is great for finicky anthias I have found. If the Lyertail doeson't eat the cyclops then something is wrong.