Eat organic food to help save reefs!

[Robka]

Would you put worm poop in your reef tank?

It is the nutrients killing the reef you started out with, regardless of the source.

Worm poop does get in my reef, since I feed the worms to my fish and I sure wouldn't put "Round Up" in my reef. Harsh synthetic chemical run off is not the same as worm poop. I have a close friend that has lost two of his brothers and his father to cancer directly related to chemical (petroleum based) pesticides and fertilizers they used on their farm. I have not heard of anyone getting cancer from worm poop. I find it quite humorous that the same people questioning the validity of organic food find it very easy to believe the chemical companies making profits off their use (especially since most of these products have clear warning labels on them)

 

[scadsobees]

It sounds to me like the title and subject matter of your original post was a false lead into a pet topic. You still haven't spoke of that yet. Organic nutrients or not, nutrients are killing that reef.

So I'm assuming that you've never had red bugs, flatworms, ich, etc, you don't use test kits or artificial salt in your aquarium. Or dip your coral. Worm poop must be an incredible panacea! :spin2:

 

[Robka]

It sounds to me like the title and subject matter of your original post was a false lead into a pet topic. You still haven't spoke of that yet. Organic nutrients or not, nutrients are killing that reef.

So I'm assuming that you've never had red bugs, flatworms, ich, etc, you don't use test kits or artificial salt in your aquarium. Or dip your coral. Worm poop must be an incredible panacea! :spin2:

If you read all my posts you would have seen that the ONLY chemicals in my house are a some for my reef & some in my garage (oil &lubricants). That being said I try to limit their use. I also said I wasn't perfect, but have mentioned in detail the many things I have done to counter act my imperfections. I have done a lot of research on this and the artificial nutrients and mass farming is the leading cause of loss of topsoil and thus more nutrients getting into our oceans. I have not heard anyone say why they trust chemical companies and doubt the validity of organic farming?

 

[gon08]

I use worm poop for fertilizer & yes I feel comfortable applying it to my skin. DO YOU feel comfortable applying "Round Up"to your skin? If so we obviously have a huge gap between us and our understanding of warning labels.:eek2:

Ok so what you're saying is you have a strange fetish of rubbing poop on your skin :eek2: but why would I rub round up on my skin? I'm not a plant and there is no logical reason for it... poop either for that matter. Poison arrow frogs carry a strong toxin which is not only organic but harmless to them.... would you rub that on your skin? This whole skin rubbing thing still makes no sense to me.

 

[scadsobees]

I just don't like it when people make silly statements about how they can save a reef by buying slightly more expensive bananas - that completely undercuts any credibility. You still haven't addressed how organic nutrients would be any less harmful to that reef.

Damage comes with scale - just like your friend's brothers weren't killed from eating non-organic food but by large scale exposure to chemicals.

I actually agree with the avoidance of chemicals where possible. I use as little as possible, although my garden is much too large to fertilize with worm castings (I use leaves and yard waste, compost).

There are certain benefits to organic, but both chemical companies and organic farms are run by people and people will either bend the truth for profit or make stupid mistakes.

They're all tools, and any tool can be used wisely for gain or wrongly for hurt.

 

[gon08]

I have done a lot of research on this and the artificial nutrients and mass farming is the leading cause of loss of topsoil and thus more nutrients getting into our oceans. I have not heard anyone say why they trust chemical companies and doubt the validity of organic farming?

Topsoil is removed by artificial nutrients? Topsoil is removed by shovels or machinery. Nutrients (one more time) are nutrients regardless where they originate whether synthetic or organic... nitrogen is nitrogen be it from Urea or worm poop.
No one has suggested trusting one over the other (well except you), what has been stated is efficiency. Synthetics will yield bigger crops in shorter periods of time.

 

[Robka]

Topsoil is removed by artificial nutrients? Topsoil is removed by shovels or machinery. Nutrients (one more time) are nutrients regardless where they originate whether synthetic or organic... nitrogen is nitrogen be it from Urea or worm poop.
No one has suggested trusting one over the other (well except you), what has been stated is efficiency. Synthetics will yield bigger crops in shorter periods of time.

There is a perfect documentary on this, but I am trying to remember the name (I have a message sent to a friend). Yes, machinery adds to the top soil loss, but the basic idea is that a substance such as worm poop has TONS of beneficial microbes, minerals, etc. that the common synthetic fertilizers & pesticides lack. Using these synthetic pesticides & fertilizes causes the soil to become barren and thus lack of ground cover causes a significant greater loss of the previously mentioned top soil.

And others have said they doubt the validity of organic farming so that pretty much implies that they trust the validity of chemical companies if they choose to use those products and thus the reason for my question.

Listen... ten years ago I was not doing hardly any of the things I do now. I was ignorant of the impact that my purchases and choices were having on this planet. I am still learning & will continue to learn on how I can better protect earth & it's inhabitants. Plastic bags weren't even around until the late 1970's. My grandmother had milk in glass jars and returned her glass Dr. Pepper bottles for recycling. The chemicals in our environment can be limited if we all try.:spin3:

 

[organism]

Ahhhh ... someone getting to the heart of the matter. Now I never said I was a perfect soldier for this planet. I have questioned my love for this hobby and it's negative impacts. Here are some of the things I have used to help balance my impact on this planet;

I want my children to be healthy, happy & be a positive role model for this planets future, once again I guess I'm just crazy like that.:wildone:

Seems to me like you made a thread lacking any substance to support its title just as a platform to promote an agenda in a forum outside the lounge, which is where threads like these belong. Those condescending "I guess I'm just crazy like that" comments are a nice touch btw.

No one cares, because it's got nothing to do with responsible reefkeeping, this is political lounge bs. If you want all farming to be organic, awesome, go tell 800 million or so people they're going to starve to death because you read some press release on what a healthy planet should be this year. Personally, I don't think well fed people in rich countries need to tell the rest of the world how to eat or feed their starving people, but I guess you're just crazy like that.

Reading and parroting press releases made by environmentalist corporations does not make you an environmentalist, it just makes you someone who is content inflicting a misguided agenda on themselves and others. Next time just put it in the lounge instead of putting a fake title on it and subjecting everyone else to this drivel.

 

[Laticialm]

^^^What he said.

 

[Robka]

Seems to me like you made a thread lacking any substance to support its title just as a platform to promote an agenda in a forum outside the lounge, which is where threads like these belong. Those condescending "I guess I'm just crazy like that" comments are a nice touch btw.

No one cares, because it's got nothing to do with responsible reefkeeping, this is political lounge bs. If you want all farming to be organic, awesome, go tell 800 million or so people they're going to starve to death because you read some press release on what a healthy planet should be this year. Personally, I don't think well fed people in rich countries need to tell the rest of the world how to eat or feed their starving people, but I guess you're just crazy like that.

Reading and parroting press releases made by environmentalist corporations does not make you an environmentalist, it just makes you someone who is content inflicting a misguided agenda on themselves and others. Next time just put it in the lounge instead of putting a fake title on it and subjecting everyone else to this drivel.

^^^What he said.

The chemicals humans dump in the ocean from farming, plastic use, etc. are all a huge part of the reason Costa Rica's and many other reefs are gone or damaged. So to say that any one of these environmental issues doesn't effect the other seems a bit naive. I love how instead of questioning your own commitment to the health of this planet, you attack my opinion with the old "political agenda" argument. That's nice and easy for you to say, but it has no truth since I am not affiliated or believe any thing that comes out of a politicians mouth despite what color his or her tie is. Once again, Why are you willing to dismiss information that independent doctors and scientists have published and yet are willing to blindly follow chemical companies? The actions I have taken and listed above will do no damage EVEN if I'm wrong, but not taking action to reduce our negative effects on this planet will have dire consequence if the independent scientists are RIGHT:thumbdown

So who here really has an agenda?????

 

[KafudaFish]

1. Sorry there is no agenda.
2. You began your thread about a specific location and a specific action and have now included the world's issues instead of discussing your original issue and solution.
3. Things are not either or yet anyone who has asked you a simple question really has not gotten answers rather you are the only one concerned with the health and well being of the children and grandchildren and then you take the defense of "I must be crazy" and everyone else has been brain washed into something they have not.
4. You stated about all the things that you have done to make a difference and I bet there are many here who have done the same, care about the same issues and have studied human impacts on natural ecosystems. One does not have to travel to another county to see the effects.
5. If anything one could argue that you have had the biggest impact on Costa Rica's reefs by visiting them compared to one who has never been but as you said I guess no one but you cares.
6. I am sorry you had a cancer scare and am glad you beat it and I am sorry for the loss of family due to it.

 

[gon08]

The chemicals humans dump in the ocean from farming, plastic use, etc. are all a huge part of the reason Costa Rica's and many other reefs are gone or damaged. So to say that any one of these environmental issues doesn't effect the other seems a bit naive. I love how instead of questioning your own commitment to the health of this planet, you attack my opinion with the old "political agenda" argument. That's nice and easy for you to say, but it has no truth since I am not affiliated or believe any thing that comes out of a politicians mouth despite what color his or her tie is. Once again, Why are you willing to dismiss information that independent doctors and scientists have published and yet are willing to blindly follow chemical companies? The actions I have taken and listed above will do no damage EVEN if I'm wrong, but not taking action to reduce our negative effects on this planet will have dire consequence if the independent scientists are RIGHT:thumbdown

So who here really has an agenda?????

You sound to me like a propaganda machine that is stuck on stupid. You haven't added any substance to your argument nor have you addressed any of the many valid counter points offered here. All you do is repeat the same ole blah blah blah plastics blah blah blah petroleum blah blah blah chemical companies. I think I'm going to go fill my F350 dually with diesel and go pick up the 6 pallets of fertilizer I need, spread it, get paid and sit back and watch how nice n green the lawn looks. :wavehand:

 

[Robka]

You sound to me like a propaganda machine that is stuck on stupid. You haven't added any substance to your argument nor have you addressed any of the many valid counter points offered here. All you do is repeat the same ole blah blah blah plastics blah blah blah petroleum blah blah blah chemical companies. I think I'm going to go fill my F350 dually with diesel and go pick up the 6 pallets of fertilizer I need, spread it, get paid and sit back and watch how nice n green the lawn looks. :wavehand:

I actually did address the differences between organic farming and traditional methods and it's effects on our reefs. Others have initiated a good discussion on a lot of other areas regarding our effects on the earth's oceans. I have yet to have very few of my counter questions answered. I don't mind your blatant sarcasm if you would ask me a specific question that you don't think I have answered?:wavehand:

 

[Robka]

1. Sorry there is no agenda.
2. You began your thread about a specific location and a specific action and have now included the world's issues instead of discussing your original issue and solution.
3. Things are not either or yet anyone who has asked you a simple question really has not gotten answers rather you are the only one concerned with the health and well being of the children and grandchildren and then you take the defense of "I must be crazy" and everyone else has been brain washed into something they have not.
4. You stated about all the things that you have done to make a difference and I bet there are many here who have done the same, care about the same issues and have studied human impacts on natural ecosystems. One does not have to travel to another county to see the effects.
5. If anything one could argue that you have had the biggest impact on Costa Rica's reefs by visiting them compared to one who has never been but as you said I guess no one but you cares.
6. I am sorry you had a cancer scare and am glad you beat it and I am sorry for the loss of family due to it.

1. I said that as sarcasm to myself being accused of such.
2. As thread & conversations often do, the subject brought into other questionable things we do that end up in our oceans and thus effect both the Costa Rica reefs and the planet as a whole.
3. The "I must be crazy" comment is once again being sarcastic to the fact that caring for the environment and going out of our way to reduce waste & chemical runoff is some sort of "political agenda" or sermon from a hippie lunatic.
4. I really hope a lot of people care about these issues(I just wish more would have spoke up on this thread I realize I am very lucky to be able to afford to travel (especially during these tough economic times) and in no way was I trying to belittle anyone who hasn't traveled so I am sorry if you took it that way.
5. By taking snorkel & diving tours we give much needed dollars to local vendors & we are ALWAYS respectful of their country. Many warm weather countries rely on tourist dollars to survive, so while I am burning carbon flying my wife and I participate in carbon offset programs to help minimize fossil fuel costs and plant trees to give much needed oxygen back to the earth's atmosphere.
6. Thank you for those kind words:wave:

 

[organism]

I love how instead of questioning your own commitment to the health of this planet, you attack my opinion with the old "political agenda" argument.

Swing and a miss, I only eat organic meats, and if some organic fruit tastes better I'll buy it. The only difference is that's me, and it's not my business to promote my personal opinions on health as an agenda on the way other people should live. That's the difference between an agenda and an opinion. You have an agenda, it's like an attention-hungry virus that needs to get up on a soapbox with a megaphone to try and infect new people, I have an opinion, and respect those of other people.

Once again, Why are you willing to dismiss information that independent doctors and scientists have published and yet are willing to blindly follow chemical companies?

And there's the old environmentalist argument: if you don't believe in ice age / global warming / organic / recycling then you're a puppet to oil / chemical / farm companies, even though environmental companies make hundreds of billions by having you believe them. You guys use "independent" to describe any scientist you agree with, and "corporate shill" for any who publish things you don't like, when in fact there is more legitimate science debunking nearly every environmentalist talking point than there is supporting it. Exhibit A: recycling. It all gets dismissed because "that's what a chemical company puppet would say", whereas your "independent" scientists get millions in grants from environmental companies.

The actions I have taken and listed above will do no damage EVEN if I'm wrong, but not taking action to reduce our negative effects on this planet will have dire consequence if the independent scientists are RIGHT:thumbdown

If we switched over to only organic farming then poor people would eat bread and wash it down with water. If everyone drove a prius the price of rare earth metals would rise so high that toyota and every cell phone manufacturer would go out of business. Third world countries wouldn't have enough food to feed their starving people, and countries like the US wouldn't have enough of a food surplus to donate to those same starving people. Food prices in the US would skyrocket. If your agenda is put into place, real scientists all agree that it would result in a global disaster. What you do is called armchair activism, it's fun and probably helps you feel good, but is not based in reality and lacks critical thinking. Yes, we do have to make changes, but if we make your changes, 800 or so million people die.

So who here really has an agenda?????

We've already established who, now we're just dealing with the denial side of it.

 

[organism]

You sound to me like a propaganda machine that is stuck on stupid. You haven't added any substance to your argument nor have you addressed any of the many valid counter points offered here. All you do is repeat the same ole blah blah blah plastics blah blah blah petroleum blah blah blah chemical companies. I think I'm going to go fill my F350 dually with diesel and go pick up the 6 pallets of fertilizer I need, spread it, get paid and sit back and watch how nice n green the lawn looks. :wavehand:

Post of the month right there

 

[chilwil84]

i try to eat organic as much as i can for my health not the environments health because in the end large amounts of food being grown in one area is going to be detrimental to the environment whether its organic or not. the problem with organic foods come when they are imported because most types have to be sprayed (citrus is cold treated) for the usda to release them into the food chain. i used to work for a company dealing with the chilean, south african, spanish, and morrocan fruit and it all got sprayed together

 

[KMP]

props for enduring four pages of bashing for something you believe in - go organic!

 

[Robka]

Swing and a miss, I only eat organic meats, and if some organic fruit tastes better I'll buy it. The only difference is that's me, and it's not my business to promote my personal opinions on health as an agenda on the way other people should live. That's the difference between an agenda and an opinion. You have an agenda, it's like an attention-hungry virus that needs to get up on a soapbox with a megaphone to try and infect new people, I have an opinion, and respect those of other people.

And there's the old environmentalist argument: if you don't believe in ice age / global warming / organic / recycling then you're a puppet to oil / chemical / farm companies, even though environmental companies make hundreds of billions by having you believe them. You guys use "independent" to describe any scientist you agree with, and "corporate shill" for any who publish things you don't like, when in fact there is more legitimate science debunking nearly every environmentalist talking point than there is supporting it. Exhibit A: recycling. It all gets dismissed because "that's what a chemical company puppet would say", whereas your "independent" scientists get millions in grants from environmental companies.



If we switched over to only organic farming then poor people would eat bread and wash it down with water. If everyone drove a prius the price of rare earth metals would rise so high that toyota and every cell phone manufacturer would go out of business. Third world countries wouldn't have enough food to feed their starving people, and countries like the US wouldn't have enough of a food surplus to donate to those same starving people. Food prices in the US would skyrocket. If your agenda is put into place, real scientists all agree that it would result in a global disaster. What you do is called armchair activism, it's fun and probably helps you feel good, but is not based in reality and lacks critical thinking. Yes, we do have to make changes, but if we make your changes, 800 or so million people die.



We've already established who, now we're just dealing with the denial side of it.

1) actually I didn't swing & miss, I was looking for others that were NOT afraid to back up their actions with words. If your doing it for your own health & not interested whether or not others do it then it seems like your not fully invested, since it takes large scale actions to make a difference.

2) recycling can be debated all night, but reducing the amount of plastics & chemicals starts at the grocery store. Example; I use to buy washed & peeled organic carrots in a plastic bag that were ready to eat. Now I buy good ole fashion chemical free carrots & wash & eat without the plastic bag.

3) Here's were the debate get's complicated. Now you are getting into over population and religious issues (which should remain off this forum) If you take a look at the earth's population & petroleum use the graph runs very parallel. In order to maintain populations in areas that do not have enough resources the petroleum based products have artificially boosted the food production capabilities so now we can support more humans, but have done so with foods & water that contain known carcinogens.

As far as "arm chair" activism, I have to disagree. Here is a definition of

"Armchair activism" :

One who sits in their armchair or desk chair and blogs or posts Activists issues on facebook without ever really doing anything about said issues or exercising any form of activism as it would require that person to actually leave the armchair.

I clearly don't fit this category as I have detailed above most of the active things I participate in & very few of these actions can be accomplished without leaving my armchair.

As far as 800 million people dieing, I'm pretty sure you have no evidence to support this but how about this question instead. What is more important to you, quality life or just surviving? I know that if we stop buying bananas from Costa Rica the local people will be fine as they eat land crabs, fresh fruit and many other things that the rain forest provides:beachbum:

 

[Robka]

props for enduring four pages of bashing for something you believe in - go organic!

Finally........... Thanks so much for the supportive feedback. Your post will help me endure 4 more pages of bashing:spin2: