Fast/slow growers, really?

Fast/slow growers, really?

  • Yes

    Votes: 82 88.2%

  • No

    Votes: 7 7.5%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 4 4.3%
  • Total voters
    93
  • Poll closed .
MUCHO REEF

MUCHO REEF

2003 TOTM Recipient
Premium Member
A Discussion & Poll, please contribute


Do you believe there are some polyps which are genetically predisposed faster or slower growers than others from the same or diverse regions?

I spent the day reading on many forums the varying opinions of many. I've seen it hundreds of times, Timmy Tightwad from Tennessee touting his common blue zoanthids as the most explosive growers he has ever seen. Yet in another thread Billy Ray Rich Reefer who says just the opposite as his identical blue zoanthids haven't produced a single poylp in an entire year.

The discussion/debate over this topic has loomed for years now. I have my own opinion and have shared it many times before, but for the sake of discussion, I'd like to hear what you think. Please, no fights, darts, missles or attacks on anyone's position, just share your opinion. Please share why you feel that way and then cast your vote. Thanks.

Remember, PLEASE VOTE up top

MUCHO REEF
TOTM - August 2003
 
Last edited:
I have a softball sized rock that I put a paly(chrome paly?), an AOG, and a green(dragon eye?) zoa on several years ago. The AOG grew but not quickly. The green grew quickly but not quick enough. And the paly has totally covered the rock. I know they're different than zoas, but when people discuss these things usually both are lumped together. I also have AOG in a slightly lower area with even less growth than the ones over run by palys.

Besides fast/slow growers I think some are perpetual melters. I have bam-bams that grow to 100+ then melt back to 20 or so. Usually happens when they get to around 100 then over a couple of weeks they melt away and the process starts again. I have some others that act similarly.
 
Have a 2 head frag of Rastas that I purchased 2 months ago, there are now 6 heads and 2 more that haven't shown color just yet. Pink and golds grow fairly quick too. With that being said everyone's tank is different and variations from one tank to the next can be so drastically different you would expect different results for different tanks/people. Something that grows well in one tank might only kinda grow in another
 
Our Orange bam bams went from a frag of 5 to a colony of several hundred with in about 9 months. Our AOG's went from a frag of 6 to about 100 in about 3 or 4 months but I have others that I don't know the name of that we bought a frag of 10 a month ago and we have 11 now. So yes some grow really fast and others don't
 
My 2 pennies:

Overall there are four schools of thought in regards to growth:

Slow growth occurs in times of nutrient stress.
There is a trade off of growth rate and development when it requires a mature functioning body.
Rapid growth occurs when a minimal size must be reached quickly for reproductive purposes.
There is rapid growth that has compensated for slowed growth due to environmental conditions.

I bet most can think back and nod your head in agreement as to these situations occurring within your system.

I think we fall into the trap of thinking that all zoas are the same and if we provide the same conditions for each one then each color morph should be identical in their growth patterns even though we can take two frags of the same color morph, put them in different areas in our tanks and see different behaviors. As the example states one reefer has great growth while the second reefer is sitting there waiting for the water to boil.

Overall why should they grow at the same rates if they came from different parts of the world or even different parts of the reef?

On the flipside, two systems will have different physical environments that impact the biological community and it is these differences that affect growth rates. Yes there are some general trends in zoa growth but who waits around long enough to see anymore?

Also just how do you quantify the difference between a fast and a slower grower? Price tag? Bubble gum name with the words LE, Rare or JF added to make it sound like a slower one? If you watch the RC livestock for sale forum there is a pretty consistent pattern of who sells what and when. Finally there was a rare and LE sps frag that was suppose to be a slow grower that started being sold here on RC maybe 2 years ago for big bucks like $150-200/inch. Now some of those people who bought the first or second generation frags and selling them too and they report that this sps is actually a fast grower. What changed?


Take home messages: if your system is not conducive to support growth then you will not have it regards if the zoas are dull browns or the next big thing and not all systems can support the same color morph with equal results compared to another system even though they appear to be “identical”.

Ok maybe that was more like a dime's worth.
 
Well, I hope I didn't botch my poll question which should have stated this...

Do you believe there are some polyps which are genetically predisposed faster or slower growers than others from the same or diverse regions?

That is the question.

Charles, I knew this post would lure you out, that's why I did it. And did you think I was dead or something :) Btw, that thing we talked about has worked out very well.


Mooch
 
I think it depends on how many times the piece has been fragged and grown and fragged etc... Better suited for tank life. As far as if you went to the region in which these naturally grow and were to take a colony or frag of one then find one on the other side of the same reef and do the same, it is possible that one would grow faster and be better so to speak. Not sure how you would ever determine which were genetically better but it would be awesome if someone could figure that out��Save the reefs
 
Dmorty217 said:
I think it depends on how many times the piece has been fragged and grown and fragged etc... Better suited for tank life. As far as if you went to the region in which these naturally grow and were to take a colony or frag of one then find one on the other side of the same reef and do the same, it is possible that one would grow faster and be better so to speak. Not sure how you would ever determine which were genetically better but it would be awesome if someone could figure that out��Save the reefs
Click to expand...

It has been shown that in marine bacteria the amount of RNA content is strongly correlated with growth rate. Though it maybe a leap up to this level of complexity it could be similar.
 
I took 1 polyp of Red People eaters, and one polyp of Radioactive Dragoneye's, and the PE's have already spouted 4 new polyps in 2 weeks. While the Dragoneye is still 1 lonely polyp
 
Hey Mucho, how's it going?

I believe that it all depends on the water parameters. The zoas have to have different growth rates under different conditions because in the wild the mats of zoas a usually of the same polyp. That leads me to believe that the space was out competed by that certain zoa. I also agree with kafudafish.

Jarred

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
 
Hey Jarred, how's it going, long time man?


So I would say that one day into this pole, the consensus ( just over 80% ) of you feel that there are indeed specific polyps which inherently grow faster and those which inherently grow slower by virtue of who and what they are? And we are speaking of the exact same polyps whether they are palythoas or zoanthids just as Timmy Tightwad and Billy Ray Rich Reefer are speaking of in my initial post above? Just want to understand everyones viewpoint.

Thanks to all who have and will reply. Instead of just saying yea or nay, can you share your opinion why? Let's make it a discussion. :thumbsup:


MUCHO REEF
TOTM - August 2003
 
MUCHO REEF said:
Well, I hope I didn't botch my poll question which should have stated this...

Do you believe there are some polyps which are genetically predisposed faster or slower growers than others from the same or diverse regions?

That is the question.

Charles, I knew this post would lure you out, that's why I did it. And did you think I was dead or something :) Btw, that thing we talked about has worked out very well.


Mooch
Click to expand...
Nice thread!! :thumbsup:

I voted yes.

I believe that different species of zoanthids can grow faster than others mainly because of their natural differencies in adaptation to the environment they are found. When we put the zoanthids in a tank they will be vulnerable to the conditions we offer, so the polyps normally found in environment similar will thrive a little faster. There are many different types of environments that zoanthids come from and only the collector would know.
It's so good when we find the common denominator (temp, water flow, params, etc...) for all the species we want to keep!!! :D

That way, some places in the wild will develop a population of predominant zoanthids species found in that area. Normally those will have a very close genetical relationship among themselves (mother colonies and daughter colonies found in the same geographic area). In that sense, they could be considered generically faster growers than other existing species in the same environment with a slower growth, and vice versa.

Another thing is the size of the colony. Generally speaking, the larger the colony or "frag" the better chances for a faster adaptation and immunization aspects. But that has little to do with genetically related.

There is another truth though. Many zoanthids would adapt well to the conditions of many of the tropical set ups and would do very well after a proper adaptation period, with stability and the basics they need.

Just my US$.02.

Great thread!!!! :thumbsup:

Grandis.
 
pink zippers= explosive growth (3p to 30+p in 3 months)
blue hornets= 3p to 6p in the same time frame

both frags are within 4" of each other....
 
i have what i think are radioactive dragon eyes (id say my colony went from 10-15 polyps to 30-40 since i got them ~8-12 months ago), whammin watermelons were slow growers for me i started with about 10, they probably got to about 15 over the course of a year and then mysteriously died, and i have some unnamed teal palys spreading like wild fire that went from 6-7 heads to about 15 right now in about a month
 
Depends on several factors, like lighting type/output, flow, and nutrient availability. Some organisms are just naturally more efficient at utilizing their environment..
 
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