fish polotics
- Thread starter Illhaveanother
- Start date
Illhaveanother
In Memoriam
What's Qm
Illhaveanother
In Memoriam
Well that's about the only thing that's misspelled so you should read it .
It's a good article.
It's a good article.
Illhaveanother
In Memoriam
Qm looks pretty good . I haven't order from them yet so I wouldn't know though . I have had great sucsess ordering from places in Flordia though , multiple places in fact. I like how QM offers the Mac certified fish and tell you were there collected . But really it's not about who you order from its about the fish you order if you order a caribean fish say from any website it's better than ordering an phillipean or especially an indoseian fish !
Illhaveanother
In Memoriam
Remember part of my "plan" in the paper was to decrease fish importation from phillipean and Indonesia but to increase coral orders . Because I realize these people still need jobs but I think if mariculture plantations were implemented it would help take pressure off wild fish stock because people wouldn't have to catch them because they would be working at the plantations all day. The plantations would b sustainable aswell.
Fishfirst
New member
Again, I think you have some misconceptions that need to be ironed out with a bit more experience and you must start to practice what you preach first. Our hobby merely scratches the surface as far as fish mortality is concerned... cyanide, commercial fishing, runoff, development, pollution, etc is much more dangerous to reefs world wide than our hobby. Yes we want to become completely sustainable of course... but you must look at the bigger picture to understand the real threats.
FYI the problem with Jawfish isn't that they ship bad. They often caught using Quinaldine squirted into their burrows. While not as bad as using cyanide, it's still not as good as strictly net caught. Not all areas of the Tropical West Atlantic are as well regulated as others in regards to the fishery. Even in FL they had to put a moratorium on collecting Condylactus anemones due to overfishing.
Illhaveanother
In Memoriam
I don't ever think we will become completely sustainable I just want to become more sustainable . I think that the places metion earlier such as Carib, Australia ect. Arnt perfect but are far more sustainable than places like the majority of Indonesia and the phillpenes .
Just think about it like a barrel of apples . There are always some bad apples in the barrel aka ( the law breakers , bad people , poor maneged fishieres )
It's just there's ALOT more bad apples in the Indonesian and phillipean barrel than in in the Carib , Fiji , Australia , hawii , other small sustainable islands barrels .
Just think about it like a barrel of apples . There are always some bad apples in the barrel aka ( the law breakers , bad people , poor maneged fishieres )
It's just there's ALOT more bad apples in the Indonesian and phillipean barrel than in in the Carib , Fiji , Australia , hawii , other small sustainable islands barrels .
Illhaveanother
In Memoriam
I definitely agree with you guys about other things such as pollution and commercial fishing being big problems . Jus look at the tuna it's endangered now please people stop eating it before it goes extinct ! But that's not to say the ornemetal trade hasn't had its impact ! I believe that we really do need to make stricter laws on coastal devolpment, and we need to find ways to keep pollutants out of our oceans . I know most pollutants come from land . It's a shame those shrimp farmers had to pull out all those mangrove trees that help filter out all the bad crap before it gets to the reefs!
I had a long response typed out for you but to be honest I don't care enough to post it.
Long story short, your article is entirely based upon your opinions and not facts as evident by your fourth sentence in the first paragraph. Overall, it is poorly written and any hope of communicating in an effective manner is lost to the reader quickly.
If you wish to convince people that they should improve the current situation, perhaps you should take this as a first draft, research the issues, present facts to support your opinions, and have someone else proof read the article before you post again.
Good luck and keep fighting the good fight.
Long story short, your article is entirely based upon your opinions and not facts as evident by your fourth sentence in the first paragraph. Overall, it is poorly written and any hope of communicating in an effective manner is lost to the reader quickly.
If you wish to convince people that they should improve the current situation, perhaps you should take this as a first draft, research the issues, present facts to support your opinions, and have someone else proof read the article before you post again.
Good luck and keep fighting the good fight.
Illhaveanother
In Memoriam
Once agian ,
Logic
Logic
Absolutely right!
Illhaveanother
In Memoriam
So what do you guys belive I am wrong because I have no solid ''facts''. Are my opinions not the truth ? If so tell me how ? I will get the info to back this up if you don't belive me .
SandyPup
New member
I think your general premise is a good one, though you do go astray here and there. The pen is truly a powerful tool for change, when it's in the hands of a knowledgeable person. Do your research - thoroughly - before making your argument.
And you may think that spelling is trivial, but you lose credibility when words are continuously misspelled or misused. The title is far from the only misspelled word in your article. I also skipped this post over many times because I didn't know what 'polotics' were. I'm just saying, spell-check is a good thing! And there is nothing better than a good old fashioned dictionary.
And you may think that spelling is trivial, but you lose credibility when words are continuously misspelled or misused. The title is far from the only misspelled word in your article. I also skipped this post over many times because I didn't know what 'polotics' were. I'm just saying, spell-check is a good thing! And there is nothing better than a good old fashioned dictionary.
I agree. Even a good thesis, poorly written, will be unconvincing to the vast majority who will skip over it as lacking credibility.
Illhaveanother
In Memoriam
Not judging it as a paper just judgeing the ideas portrayed , do you think I have valid points or do most of you just completely disagree with me ?
plantastic
New member
I don't think anyone would disagree with the premise that sustainability is a priority.
I do think that most folks that have worked in this industry, and educated themselves on this industry, can clearly surmise that you have not, and are not.
Opinions are not facts. They are your "summation" of a fact. If you are uneducated or misinformed regarding facts, then you will usually have an uninformed or short sighted opinion.
This is not meant to bash you...you definitely show a passion...that passion should be the "fuel" to put forth the effort to become educated, regarding the topic which you have passion for...
Here's to hoping you become someone that changes the industry for the better,:beer:!!
I do think that most folks that have worked in this industry, and educated themselves on this industry, can clearly surmise that you have not, and are not.
Opinions are not facts. They are your "summation" of a fact. If you are uneducated or misinformed regarding facts, then you will usually have an uninformed or short sighted opinion.
This is not meant to bash you...you definitely show a passion...that passion should be the "fuel" to put forth the effort to become educated, regarding the topic which you have passion for...
Here's to hoping you become someone that changes the industry for the better,:beer:!!
I can appreciate your desire to make this a better world. I also agree in principle we need better laws, regulations to encourage and better manage sustainable resources not only of reef ecosystems but globally. However I think you would be well served to take some creative writing or English classes.
Sorry but to be honest my first thought to your claim of "Some innovative new ideas" was "Yeah, right! How does he know his ideas are either!" To follow up with my initial thoughts nowhere have you said anything I thought was new or innovative. You set an incredibly high bar for yourself and what you wrote I feel was poorly thought out and presented and stuff I've heard in one form or another for a couple of decades now.
I do think you would help your position if you put a little more thought into your statements, did a little more research and listed references. For an example, taking your idea of collectors and wholesalers holding fish for 5 days to make sure all specimens acclimate well. How do you know some of them haven't tried this already? Some of the wholesalers have been around for decades, what do they say to this? How do you know 5 days is adequate for a fish to acclimate? (Seems like for a start some simple experiments could be done with a few small tanks and small gobies or damsels if you were so inclined, having some hard data from your own research would at the least give you more credibility.) Does a fish experience more stress being moved quickly from tank to tank or does it experience more stress being moved, acclimated, then moved? With the longer time in an aquarium with other fish what is the disease transmission rate besides the common external parasites? Does acclimating the fish increase disease transmission even if it reduces moving stress? How many fish can be acclimated together (this will certainly vary by species)? What is the balance point between stress experienced from aggression and stress experienced from moving or is it just a trade off and a fish may experience a constant level of stress? If you ask me I'd say the trend to get the fish to the the consumer quicker is probably the better way, it can now be just a few days compared to the weeks it may have taken in the early '90s but that's just my opinion.
Some other topics I think you've left out completely that should be addressed is how critical it is to restore apex predators, here's two references:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0074648
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18308421?dopt=Abstract
The impact "tourists" have on reefs:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291018/
And biopiracy is almost certainly going to affect all of us one way or another as well in the years to come although the extant it directly impacts aquarists in the US may be negligable for a very long time. It is quite possible however for some of us to have very rare species that may be unique to one island. What are the potential legal ramifications of propagating an animal unique to a country without that country's permission?
Sorry but to be honest my first thought to your claim of "Some innovative new ideas" was "Yeah, right! How does he know his ideas are either!" To follow up with my initial thoughts nowhere have you said anything I thought was new or innovative. You set an incredibly high bar for yourself and what you wrote I feel was poorly thought out and presented and stuff I've heard in one form or another for a couple of decades now.
I do think you would help your position if you put a little more thought into your statements, did a little more research and listed references. For an example, taking your idea of collectors and wholesalers holding fish for 5 days to make sure all specimens acclimate well. How do you know some of them haven't tried this already? Some of the wholesalers have been around for decades, what do they say to this? How do you know 5 days is adequate for a fish to acclimate? (Seems like for a start some simple experiments could be done with a few small tanks and small gobies or damsels if you were so inclined, having some hard data from your own research would at the least give you more credibility.) Does a fish experience more stress being moved quickly from tank to tank or does it experience more stress being moved, acclimated, then moved? With the longer time in an aquarium with other fish what is the disease transmission rate besides the common external parasites? Does acclimating the fish increase disease transmission even if it reduces moving stress? How many fish can be acclimated together (this will certainly vary by species)? What is the balance point between stress experienced from aggression and stress experienced from moving or is it just a trade off and a fish may experience a constant level of stress? If you ask me I'd say the trend to get the fish to the the consumer quicker is probably the better way, it can now be just a few days compared to the weeks it may have taken in the early '90s but that's just my opinion.
Some other topics I think you've left out completely that should be addressed is how critical it is to restore apex predators, here's two references:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0074648
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18308421?dopt=Abstract
The impact "tourists" have on reefs:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291018/
And biopiracy is almost certainly going to affect all of us one way or another as well in the years to come although the extant it directly impacts aquarists in the US may be negligable for a very long time. It is quite possible however for some of us to have very rare species that may be unique to one island. What are the potential legal ramifications of propagating an animal unique to a country without that country's permission?
