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I'm sure within 2 replies and 20 views this post will be "CLOSED" arbitrarily by admins that are abusing their power.

But here goes anyway.

I started a thread called, "For sale argument", that got alot of intelligent responses and input, both for and against my argument. It was a good discussion thread nonetheless, and then the admin that initially started my 'march on washington' sent a reply to the thread and CLOSED it. He closed it why? Well I could speculate, so I will. He closed it because he likes to have the last word. He closed it because he was afraid of what some people my say in response to his 'final word'. He closed it because he CAN. Because he enjoys his POWER. And enjoys abusing it.

I'm terribly offended at this point. Not because my intial for sale post was closed (I understand the rules now, I didn't when I initially posted my tank for sale) but because the same admin has decided that we as a community can't even DISCUSS the why's and what-fors of the rule. He is living in the wrong country, and the wrong time in history to be treating this site like his own private amusement park.

Is there a place in the "reef central" rulebook that states we as a community cannot discuss, intelligently, the rules of the website?

Am I totally missing something?

Is everyone here terribly afraid of the admins and so they just let the abuse persist? I'm recalling passages in Orwelle's 1984 at this moment and am shocked and appalled that such a world may in fact exist in virtual reality!

I posted last night many things that were valid and intelligent, and a few things that were merely to up my post count. Yet the aptly named "degenerate" reduced my post count back to my "Pre for sale" life. What kind of power trip? Who can I complain to?

Seriously, here is my one request, can someone PM me a name of someone that I can complain to about this situation? I feel like my only outlet is to post openly, but knowing full well that this guy is going to close this post as soon as he sees it, so it will not see the light of day.

This isn't right.

And if I get banned for saying that, then someone better carry this torch if you have any fight left in you. Nothing in my public posts thus far can be grounds for banning me, but I have a feeling that the ego of the admin may not care, then I will drift off into the deep darkness, never to be seen again, and the rest of you will (I hope you won't) go back to being numb about this whole situation.

Have any of you seen Wall-E? There are some similarities.... suspicious strangeness..... is Big Brother afraid we're going to rise up and take his power away?

And just so everyone knows: this whole thing started because the 'for sale' sticky doesn't mention anything in the initial post about needing to be a member for a certain period, or have a certain post count. I'm sorry I didn't read every word of that sticky thread... I figured the meat would be in the initial post!

And while we're at it: I sincerely believe in the idea that the member needs to be a member for a certain period of time before he can post for sale stuff.... but the whole, "you gotta post" doesn't seem right to me. I was ignorant when I got into the hobby, and I'm still ignorant! When I read things on here, I think to myself, "jeez I don't know jack about reef keeping! Why is my stuff still alive!?" I really got lucky in this hobby, I've read so many posts about how difficult the hobby is, and it really wasn't that hard for me. But I'm still totally ignorant about it.... I don't know the names of half the stuff in my tank. I couldn't remember how big my tank was until I measured it upon my intitial for sale post. The point is, I hardly ever felt worthy enough to comment, so the only thing I would do is create threads asking stupid questions, then I found out that almost if not all of my stupid questions had already been answered in the past, and I just needed to search for the keywords to find the answer.... after that, I dono... I just didn't like the hobby enough to go to the group trading parties.... or maybe I'm just lazy, I really don't know....

But seriously there are people that don't post that feel as I do, but luckily they haven't needed to sell anything I guess!

If I don't get to post again..... good luck, and don't let control freaks ruin this forum!
don't take this personal. RC does have a user agreement. you might want to review it. keep in mind this is a large forum and only so many moderators to oversee it. they have rules for a reason and thats to keep the peace on the forum.

and also...

When a thread is closed, reposting the same rant is never a good idea. BTW, any moderator can be PM'd. I'd suggest dropping the crusade before you do find yourself banned.
BTW the reasons we don't allow useless post whoring drivel to be acceptable for your post count is twofold, it's downright annoying to other members and in some case is detrimental and even harmful to others. A prime example of detrimental and harmful would be one post you made in answer to someones fish disease question with an absolutely stupid answer :mad:
You act as if this site, and the people that run it owe you something. The truth is quite the contrary. This site was born with the goal of forwarding the hobby. We are here for members to share information, and contribute something to the community by posting to ask/answer questions. Selling is a perk that I'd prefer was not permitted at all, but is allowed for people that further the cause by sharing/requesting information. Without people posting questions, and other people answering them, RC would cease to exist as a bulletin board, and become a soon to be outdated online encyclopedia.
In any case, you've made it very obvious that RC is not the site for you. I'm sure there's another hobby forum that would be happy to let you sell your stuff there, whether or not you actually contribute anything. I suggest you look for that site, as it's the easiest way to satisfy all involved. I suspect that you will probably refuse to do that on your own, so let's discuss this;

And if I get banned for saying that, then someone better carry this torch if you have any fight left in you. Nothing in my public posts thus far can be grounds for banning me, but I have a feeling that the ego of the admin may not care, then I will drift off into the deep darkness, never to be seen again, and the rest of you will (I hope you won't) go back to being numb about this whole situation.

You have obviously not read the <a href= target=_blank>User Agreement</a>.
POSTING IS A PRIVILEGE. Please note that you are a guest on a privately-owned site. Posting here is a privilege that we hope you will enjoy and respect. All members are to have only one user name and are to post under that name exclusively. The moderators can, and will, remove the posting privileges of any person who does not wish to follow the rules, or in the opinion of the moderators is a detriment to the site.

I've got more than enough reason, given your recent rants to determine that you are a detriment to this community, and you yourself have demonstrated that you don't want to follow the rules.
So, since you have chosen to take this public, I'll unlock this thread so you can respond, and try to convince me that you offer something of value to this community. Something valuable enough to cancel out the detrimental effect you're currently having.

The floor is yours.
natomasreefer, I would take a deep breath and back down on this one. You're not really helping anyone out by trying to fight the power. R/C is a PRIVATE site so they can pretty much do whatever they want. Just suck it up and wait for your 90 days/50 posts. You're making MARS look bad.

Re: GESTAPO Admins

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12880695#post12880695 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by natomasreefer
Yet the aptly named "degenerate" reduced my post count back to my "Pre for sale" life. What kind of power trip? Who can I complain to?

Well, while I'm not a huge fan of some of the RC policies and even less of a fan of the smart aleck or rude remarks that many of mods use when they take action against a user, the only person that might seem to care would be the sponsors and users of RC. Unless they stop spending money to support the forum, or people stop coming here, you're stuck playing by the rules (however much you don't like them). As posted many times before, this is not a democracy. Either recognize that, deal with it or move on.

All that said, welcome to RC, and more importantly welcome to the Sacramento reefing community. Have you been to a MARS meeting? We take all kinds!
Most RC sites wont let you post for sale items at all. I am glad there is some kind of limiting factor to inhibit for sale posts. This is, after all, a reefing forum. Were I regularly parasitise information. Please don't dry up my source. Craigslist seems like an excellent place to sell stuff. We all go there.
I personaly thought the thing where you had to be a member for so long or have had "x" amount of posts to post a thread in the selling forum is a great Idea, would help keep the people who would come on here to scam fellow reefers out or atleast give them a harder time.

we spend enough on this hobby as it is and dont need to give our hard earned $$$ to scammers. I'm not saying scams are not out there, it just makes it harder for those with ill intent to scam us.

I know myself i would not want any bad feedback associated with my name. I've only been a memeber for a little while but I already value this community way too much to ever allow myself to post anything non legit. (not that I ever would anyway)

I can certianly understand why your frustraited tho, It happended to me on another forum. I was a non paying memeber and tried to post a snake for sale/trade for fishy items and my post was removed after they said they would make an exception allow it b/c I was looking to trade for fish items. I was pretty upset and msg's the head mod. Once they explained why they had removed the post I was fine.

Anyways I hope you don't end up getting banned as this site is a huge resource.
rc can have whatever rules they want; i'm thankful to have a place like this to learn and chat with my buddies.
Every month this is happening.

Boy some members are giving MARS A bad Name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love RC do not ruin it for the rest of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

que sera sera, leave it as is, its good the way it is and no change is needed, i know i havent made the best impression with my early on posts yet i had a reason in which i could not control it, seeing your posts over and over again about the same hating on RC is really annoying to me, i expect to see things about a reeef aquarium not hating the site that is providing us a place to talk nad most importantly learn, and with certain curcomstances (SSSPP???) sell things as well.

just my 2 cents
Well.... here's a big place where I feel that I've been wrong.... I honestly have NOT read alot of the general posts, the day-to-day lifestyle posts on this site... usually I go straight for the meat of what I'm looking for "what is the red hairy stuff in my tank?" "is my brittle star dangerous to my other fish?" "why isn't my sps growing like they promised me it would?" etc.... so I didn't get involved, and honestly didn't know the politics or the lifestyle, so to speak, of this forum.

It was nice of degen to open this back up. I honestly wish/hope that there would be more openness and willingness to let people talk in the future, but I also appreciate the basic fact that this is a private board that is run by people for profit, or otherwise, and is NOT a democracy or a 'village'.

I don't want to hurt MARS. I did notice craigslist has alot of tanks and whatnot for sale.

I think I should be able to post my aquarium for sale. But I appreciate the general rule. I don't really know how to marry the two, so instead, unless the admins make an exception, I will just post it on craigslist.

I'll make one last argument, that I've made before... just this: when I posted the for sale thread I got 6-7 pms within an hour, and two people that called me. One saw it today, the other will look at it tomorrow. What this tells me is simply that there is a market here for what I am selling, thus it would benefit the local group.

Honestly, if no one had pm'd me, or only one person in the hour or two that the post was up had done so, I really wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But, the good news is, I'm sure the people that pm'd me surf our local craigslist also, so maybe they'll see my tank there.

I don't know the difficulties in creating a sub-board within MARS that allows selling, but it seems like it should be looked into. And within that board, a loosening of the rules, since that particular location will only be looked at by people interested in purchasing marine stuff.... maybe the experiment will fail, and people will post snakes, or viagra, but maybe not...

Again, I appreciate being given a public opportunity to discuss this, and I do appreciate the posts that I've seen. Worst case scenario, admins are terrible people, but they offer a great service, and that shouldn't be disregarded.... and I doubt this is worst case scenario.... in fact you proved that it isn't by allowing this thread to re-open.

Sorry for throwin' poop in the punch bowl!
well said natomas. Agree a sub forum would be ideal and great feature!

Also give credit to larry for reopening and actually taking the time to write an intelligent response. as i agree with Pete i all to often see smart alect and rude remarks from Mods
Lame you've had issues.

I have read for a long time as you can guess. Doesn't mean, I should contribute. (BTW, Everything really survives in freshwater better..j/k)

I do agree with the rules, but the for sale forum sucks. There are about 300M Americans (the general audience posting in the for sale forum) What if they hosted this for a Chinese or Indian audience?

A better solution needs to be found. Craigslist seems to be it but what percentage of Reef Central users want to sale a tank to a person who wants a saltwater tank without a days or more worth of research?
Thank you for the kind words. It's nice to see that there is appreciation out there.

Again, RC was not created for people to sell stuff here. We exist for the sharing of information in the hopes that it will help people have success with the animals they keep. In the long run, the benefit of saving the lives of animals that would have died in the hands of uninformed hobbyists is a terrific side effect.
We realize that we have pretty much no choice but to allow selling here, but I'd much prefer we didn't have classifieds, at all.
At this time, I don't think you're in danger of losing the selling forums, or the ability to post for sale threads in the local club forums here.
That being the case, we require that you meet certain minimum requirements before taking advantage of our resources, and community to sell your stuff. I don't think the requirements are at all unreasonable, and had it been up to me, there would be much higher minimums.
As far as a sub forum for selling created specifically to circumvent our rules, I can only assume that's a joke. Even if there were a reason to create such a thing, have you seen the number of club forums here? If you guys get it, I have to do the same for every other club. Are you suggesting a complete free for all without moderation, or are we expected to find the people to man those 100+ extra forums? I can assure you that there is no way we're going to add 100+ new forums for any reason, so I guess those questions are rhetorical.
All in all, we have reached the point where this situation becomes water under the bridge, or someone decides to press it further. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with it. My hope is that everyone understands and accepts the rules regarding participation in this community, and that you're all done with it as well.
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