klondike4001
New member
Jeeze sorry to hear ace, lmk when you restock, I've still got several of your corals here.
gone solar
- Thread starter hobogato
- Start date
maxxII
Super Housemonkey!
Sorry to hear that Ace...
I had the same thing happen to me too. A large Ritteri anemone wandered into my Stream and killed off a Tomini tang I'd had for 4 years, a Red Sea Regal angel I'd had for a year and was eating like a beast, and a Black Cap basslet....My corals werent affected though.
What kind of anemone was this?
Nick
I had the same thing happen to me too. A large Ritteri anemone wandered into my Stream and killed off a Tomini tang I'd had for 4 years, a Red Sea Regal angel I'd had for a year and was eating like a beast, and a Black Cap basslet....My corals werent affected though.
What kind of anemone was this?
Nick
trueblackpercula
New member
This is amazing make me think about it.
Michael
Michael
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
An abosulety amazing build! I skipped many pages in between (mostly to look at the timeline photos). So I may have missed talk of what I am about to comment on.
Back on page 1, you mentioned a $150 savings due to the removal of the (5) 250W MH bulbs. Any time I see estimated energy savings I do the math...
Lets say each 250W bulb + ballast uses 275W
You mentioned a 7 hour photoperiod
That is 9.625 kWh per day or 288.75 kWh per month.
Lets assume that your halides impart 50% of their energy directly into the water as HEAT. Lets also assume that your chiller is not very efficient and it needs to consume 1 watt to move 3 Watts of heat from the tank (In reality a chiller moves MUCH more heat than that). So the chiller is going to use around 50 kWh per month.
Lets also assume you homes AC is in dire need of recharge and it too only moves 3 Watts of heat per watt consumed. So it must move ALL of the 50 kWh used by the chiller and the rest of the heat (radiated into the room) from the bulbs. Lets call it 75 kWh per month!
So we are now up to 288.75 + 50 + 75 = 413 kWh per month.
So $150 divided by 413 kWh = $0.363 per kWh. If we used the real efficiency numbers of chillers and AC units, we would come up with a number closer to $0.45 per kWh!
As far as I can tell both regulated and deregulated rates in your area are in the $0.06 range. So lets double it to be safe and call it $0.12 per kWh. At that rate, you savings, even with the over-fudged usage numbers would be only $49 a month. In reality more like $35.
Please don't take this as me calling you out. I am just a stickler for energy savings numbers and hope that by showing the math, more people can derive realistic estimates on savings or operating costs when making equipment decisions.
I guess the real question is, what are your electric rates per kWh?
Again, your lighting project is absolutely beautiful. I would love to live in an area and a home that I could do the same thing in!
Back on page 1, you mentioned a $150 savings due to the removal of the (5) 250W MH bulbs. Any time I see estimated energy savings I do the math...
Lets say each 250W bulb + ballast uses 275W
You mentioned a 7 hour photoperiod
That is 9.625 kWh per day or 288.75 kWh per month.
Lets assume that your halides impart 50% of their energy directly into the water as HEAT. Lets also assume that your chiller is not very efficient and it needs to consume 1 watt to move 3 Watts of heat from the tank (In reality a chiller moves MUCH more heat than that). So the chiller is going to use around 50 kWh per month.
Lets also assume you homes AC is in dire need of recharge and it too only moves 3 Watts of heat per watt consumed. So it must move ALL of the 50 kWh used by the chiller and the rest of the heat (radiated into the room) from the bulbs. Lets call it 75 kWh per month!
So we are now up to 288.75 + 50 + 75 = 413 kWh per month.
So $150 divided by 413 kWh = $0.363 per kWh. If we used the real efficiency numbers of chillers and AC units, we would come up with a number closer to $0.45 per kWh!
As far as I can tell both regulated and deregulated rates in your area are in the $0.06 range. So lets double it to be safe and call it $0.12 per kWh. At that rate, you savings, even with the over-fudged usage numbers would be only $49 a month. In reality more like $35.
Please don't take this as me calling you out. I am just a stickler for energy savings numbers and hope that by showing the math, more people can derive realistic estimates on savings or operating costs when making equipment decisions.
I guess the real question is, what are your electric rates per kWh?
Again, your lighting project is absolutely beautiful. I would love to live in an area and a home that I could do the same thing in!
maxxII
Super Housemonkey!
Bean,
Strictly speaking on energy savings, you make good points. However, dont forget to factor in the savings in no longer having to purchase MH bulbs, which at a conservative side is approx $65 per bulb....
Ace,
Hope the restock is going well. I know for a period of time after my wipe out, I was in no mood to look at the tank. It takes some time, but you'll be back in action soon.
Nick
Strictly speaking on energy savings, you make good points. However, dont forget to factor in the savings in no longer having to purchase MH bulbs, which at a conservative side is approx $65 per bulb....
Ace,
Hope the restock is going well. I know for a period of time after my wipe out, I was in no mood to look at the tank. It takes some time, but you'll be back in action soon.
Nick
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Ohh absolutely Max. I was just pointing out the energy costs. On the topic of bulbs, I am starting to buy into the 2-3 year per bulb model based on the long term output data the Sanjay and others have collected. That is not here or there though...
I would not discourage anybody from doing such a project, as I think it looks great and makes a lot of sense, no matter what the actual energy savings or ROI is.
I would not discourage anybody from doing such a project, as I think it looks great and makes a lot of sense, no matter what the actual energy savings or ROI is.
hobogato
New member
well, the fish restocking is going well, but i continue to lose corals that were damaged.
beananimal - thanks for the calculations, i didnt do them myself. all i know, is my electricity bill from one month (july) with halides to another (august) without was about $160 less. my ac is fairly new and a 15 seer. my chiller is a 1hp chiller that used to run an estimated 10 minutes every hour and now runs 10 minutes every 6 hours or so. our electricity runs $0.08 kwh but at that time, we were getting two extra charges on the bill: fuel adjustment and fuel surcharge. also, my ballasts were all electronic but all were at least 3 years old. two of them were probably 5 years old (i bought them used). they were probably getting pretty inefficient. right now, our bill compared to last year's bill for the same month is $60 less.
beananimal - thanks for the calculations, i didnt do them myself. all i know, is my electricity bill from one month (july) with halides to another (august) without was about $160 less. my ac is fairly new and a 15 seer. my chiller is a 1hp chiller that used to run an estimated 10 minutes every hour and now runs 10 minutes every 6 hours or so. our electricity runs $0.08 kwh but at that time, we were getting two extra charges on the bill: fuel adjustment and fuel surcharge. also, my ballasts were all electronic but all were at least 3 years old. two of them were probably 5 years old (i bought them used). they were probably getting pretty inefficient. right now, our bill compared to last year's bill for the same month is $60 less.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Hard to tell what the total difference is cost was actually attributed to that first month 
Your additional information and $60 savings do make perfect sense.
Lets overshoot 1hp by about 30% and call the chiller 1000 Watts to be safe (that will account for the frequent compressor starts and other inefficiencies)
So usage went from 240 minutes pre sola tubes to 40 minutes post installation. That means you cut out 200 minutes of chiller use @ 1000W or 3.3kWh per day of chiller use. That is 100 kWh a month saved. Not bad at all my friend.
The homes AC is rated at 13 SEER, so lets fudge the numbers up a bit and assume it is br say it still takes it 50 kWh a month to remove the total heat moved (and created) by the chiller each month + the bulb heat that the chiller does not handle.
Lets then assume that your each 250W bulb actually consumed 300W to run this time. That is 10.5 kWh per day or 315 per month.
Add the chiller and AC and you get 465 kWh saved per month. Nothing to sneeze at! Now at $0.16 (fudged up from the $0.08 to compensate for the delivery and fuel charges) we get $74.
So if we consider that your Homes AC is running at 13 SEER and your other estimates of run time are pretty close, then the $60 savings per month you are now seeing can certainly be attributed to your upgrades! The ROI may be a bit further down the road, but does it really matter
Please keep us informed of the progress with the tank. I have never lost a whole system, but I have had my share of small disasters. I can only imagine dealing with it on tank your size.
Your additional information and $60 savings do make perfect sense.
Lets overshoot 1hp by about 30% and call the chiller 1000 Watts to be safe (that will account for the frequent compressor starts and other inefficiencies)
So usage went from 240 minutes pre sola tubes to 40 minutes post installation. That means you cut out 200 minutes of chiller use @ 1000W or 3.3kWh per day of chiller use. That is 100 kWh a month saved. Not bad at all my friend.
The homes AC is rated at 13 SEER, so lets fudge the numbers up a bit and assume it is br say it still takes it 50 kWh a month to remove the total heat moved (and created) by the chiller each month + the bulb heat that the chiller does not handle.
Lets then assume that your each 250W bulb actually consumed 300W to run this time. That is 10.5 kWh per day or 315 per month.
Add the chiller and AC and you get 465 kWh saved per month. Nothing to sneeze at! Now at $0.16 (fudged up from the $0.08 to compensate for the delivery and fuel charges) we get $74.
So if we consider that your Homes AC is running at 13 SEER and your other estimates of run time are pretty close, then the $60 savings per month you are now seeing can certainly be attributed to your upgrades! The ROI may be a bit further down the road, but does it really matter
Please keep us informed of the progress with the tank. I have never lost a whole system, but I have had my share of small disasters. I can only imagine dealing with it on tank your size.
VegasReefer
Premium Member
BeAnAnimal; Love when you show true savings, hate what happens when all the Trash BeanAnimal people show up 
. I for one am not one of them, I have followed many a tread where yours was the only voice of knowledge.
With that said, I want to state, if $60 is the Average savings, that is going to be a nice yearly addition. Just think what $720 can buy for that tank.
I absolutely love this thread, I am in the planing for a LARGE tank 8x5x3, and had been thinking of using Tubes for a year now, and love the fact that you have been giving monthly sunrise- sunset updates. Sorry to hear about the diced anemone taking out your tank. Hopefully you can recover to the beautiful state you where at before.
When comparing savings, you really need to compare "LIKE YEAR to LIKE YEAR" Average Daily temp, wind ect.. I live in Las Vegas Nevada, and August is always hot. 2 years ago, our AC went out on one of the hottest weeks ( over 117 all 3 days they where in my attic ) However the temp resided the day it went on, and I didn't get to see what going from a 15 year old 13 seer 5 ton unit ( true efficiency around ~7 - 8 seer) to a state of the art, top of the line 21 seer Dual stage , dual scroll compressor, 3 stage air handler unit.( true ~19 seer ). I know that I was averaging $450 a month in the summer with a high of over $600, and my first full bill after the new ac was $180, but I cant say that the AC unit saved me $270. Shortly after the new AC I added about 30R to the attic with blown insulation, and added 2 inches of rigid insulation to the south and west walls. With all that My high is now in the ~$170 range, with an average in the $110. We haven't had a HOT summer since, so that will be the true test, but I know it will be a big savings.
Ok i just ranted like one of those anti's I hate, though I was trying to show the same point BeanAnimal was making.
. I for one am not one of them, I have followed many a tread where yours was the only voice of knowledge.With that said, I want to state, if $60 is the Average savings, that is going to be a nice yearly addition. Just think what $720 can buy for that tank.
I absolutely love this thread, I am in the planing for a LARGE tank 8x5x3, and had been thinking of using Tubes for a year now, and love the fact that you have been giving monthly sunrise- sunset updates. Sorry to hear about the diced anemone taking out your tank. Hopefully you can recover to the beautiful state you where at before.
When comparing savings, you really need to compare "LIKE YEAR to LIKE YEAR" Average Daily temp, wind ect.. I live in Las Vegas Nevada, and August is always hot. 2 years ago, our AC went out on one of the hottest weeks ( over 117 all 3 days they where in my attic ) However the temp resided the day it went on, and I didn't get to see what going from a 15 year old 13 seer 5 ton unit ( true efficiency around ~7 - 8 seer) to a state of the art, top of the line 21 seer Dual stage , dual scroll compressor, 3 stage air handler unit.( true ~19 seer ). I know that I was averaging $450 a month in the summer with a high of over $600, and my first full bill after the new ac was $180, but I cant say that the AC unit saved me $270. Shortly after the new AC I added about 30R to the attic with blown insulation, and added 2 inches of rigid insulation to the south and west walls. With all that My high is now in the ~$170 range, with an average in the $110. We haven't had a HOT summer since, so that will be the true test, but I know it will be a big savings.
Ok i just ranted like one of those anti's I hate, though I was trying to show the same point BeanAnimal was making.
GoBigOrGoHome
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13887681#post13887681 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by VegasReefer
BeAnAnimal; Love when you show true savings, hate what happens when all the Trash BeanAnimal people show up
I second that ^, although I don't think anyone here is really trashing what he's saying.
Ace. Haven't checked up on your thread in a while, and I'm sad to hear about your losses. Hope all your corals turn out okay. I suppose I'm just lucky, but I've had LT anemones and RBTA anemones get sucked into powerheads on very small tanks, like 30-gal, and I've never experienced any kind of die-off. I wish you had the same luck.
hobogato
New member
actually, i ended up losing about 40 corals - some larger than softball size colonies that i had grown from 1" frags and one table that was ablout 10" across (also grown from a 1" frag). the corals that remain look pretty good, so i dont think i will loose any more. the newly aquired wrasses and radiant wrasse that made it thru the mess have started following me around as i blow the AEFW off of the sps with a powerhead, so that is a good sign.
GoBigOrGoHome
New member
Unfortunate about the corals you have lost (reeeeeeeeeeeaaallllly unfortunate), but I'm glad to hear that you're in the recovery stages now.
NewSchool04
New member
That's terrible news hobogato. I've been there and know how tough it is to start back but I'm sure you'll make it even better this go around!
