Guess the Phosphate level
- Thread starter Thales
- Start date
ganjero
saiperchémibatteilcorazon
Don't take it personal ( I think you did just because of the fact that English is not your native language), I think he just made an observation. This miscommunication sometimes happens to people that English is not their native language, like us.
Thales,
I think, and Allmost can correct me if I'm wrong, what he tried to say is that high nutrients did not cause major issues in your tank but we cannot conclude from your experience that crashes, die offs, coloration, growth, etc. are completely unrelated to nutrients.
Last edited:
kaserpick
Keeping it Simple
99.9 percent? Now I'm offended, since the statistical likelihood that I would be included in that subset is quite high. Unless, of course, I'm not included in you universe of discourse. 
I'm just playing around with those previous statements. 
All joking aside, I may be optimistic, but I think that many (and I would like to think most) of the people actually reading this thread (not simply skimming from it) understand what Thales is suggesting. I believe it's this (Thales, please feel free to correct):
The 'rules' that we are fed in this hobby (or find in this hobby, as I don't wish to suggest that I believe everything is done simply for monetary gain) are not hard rules. They could be considered guidelines, but even still, it's quite possible to find something different to be true. There's still much to be explored, in regard to how these 'reefs', created by us, work.
I'm just playing around with those previous statements. All joking aside, I may be optimistic, but I think that many (and I would like to think most) of the people actually reading this thread (not simply skimming from it) understand what Thales is suggesting. I believe it's this (Thales, please feel free to correct):
The 'rules' that we are fed in this hobby (or find in this hobby, as I don't wish to suggest that I believe everything is done simply for monetary gain) are not hard rules. They could be considered guidelines, but even still, it's quite possible to find something different to be true. There's still much to be explored, in regard to how these 'reefs', created by us, work.
kaserpick
Keeping it Simple
I've certainly had personal experiences that would suggest that (although not literally, as that equation would suggest that the two changes with respect to time are fixed with respect to each other). How do I know that, while N is changing with a fixed slope (an affine transformation), F is barely changing, suggesting the absolute value of its instantaneous slope is diminishing? Perhaps, it reaches an asymptote. You cannot say that it doesn't, mathematically, because there is NO defined function for N and F. You can't guarantee N and F's behaviors in this scenario.
So, it could be possible that there is a range that doesn't change the color and growth. There could also be another function or variable that buffers the effect of the nutrients. Too many possibilities to give a relation between the two (F and N).
dN/Dt -> DF/Dt, this would be closer, but it still may not be completely true in all cases. That is the point of this thread.
EDIT: You actually could say that it doesn't terminate, approaching an asymptote, as dumping crap (literally) in your tank, continuously would definitely change things.
Last edited:
Thales
Active member
Thales
Active member
I agree, and that is partially why I am sensitive to the quasi arguments from authority.
Pretty close.
kaserpick
Keeping it Simple
Pretty close.
Excellent! I, at least, feel like I wasn't way off base.
CW from the OC
New member
Thales, thank you for a very interesting thread, and your very even-handed approach to the discussion. I for one do not think at all that you are pushing for high phosphates.
I also love it when the topic strays or get a bit heated, and you post up some epic shots of your corals. Awsome tank, beautiful corals. Intellectually challenging discussion. Thread of the month IMO...
I also love it when the topic strays or get a bit heated, and you post up some epic shots of your corals. Awsome tank, beautiful corals. Intellectually challenging discussion. Thread of the month IMO...
Looks very nice,love the borbonious and the calms in particluar. Dendrophylia seem to love it. The bangai must feast at night(mine do) assuming high pod populations .Is there any moonlight for it
Out of curiosity are there any seriatopora in there. Most of those rightly or wrongly are reported to give folks around here the most trouble at even marginally high nitrates(>10 to 20ppm NO3 or so) ?
Out of curiosity are there any seriatopora in there. Most of those rightly or wrongly are reported to give folks around here the most trouble at even marginally high nitrates(>10 to 20ppm NO3 or so) ?
M007
Acro Whore
Some snaps tonight under the LED's and Raidums. The ones from yesterday were under the LED's, Radiums and 14 K Ushios. Please forgive the little bit of algae - its been a long day.
Left side
FTS
Right side
Hard to argue with that! This flies in the face of current reef chemistry bafflegab! :hammer:
Moser
Active member
markalot
...
I'm going to add my opinion for what it's worth.
The amount of food available in the water column is the key to coral health and coloration. Period.
The commonality with all great looking tanks, regardless of test levels, is heavy feeding.
We go overboard measuring Po and N to try and keep parameters under control, and this hurts some as much as it helps others. I don't think we know exactly what levels of nitrates and phosphates hurt corals, I think a heavily fed tank with high phosphates will look better than one not heavily fed with lower phosphates. At the same time I think a heavily fed tank with lower phosphates will look best of all ...
... but how much better, and does it matter?
I've seen so many threads of corals harmed by GFO and other nutrient control measures, so why do some show more concern over high nitrates and phosphates than they do over stripping the water in a newer tank which leads to coral deaths? Someone was extremely concerned about people adding nitrate and phosphate to their water (which I agree is a BAD idea), but I doubt this would do as much damage as adding GFO and lowering parameters too fast or too low.
Anyway, my take away is FEED MORE NOW and have a ton of flow to keep food suspended for as long as possible. Get the water full of things corals can feed on while at the same time having good export mechanisms to keep bad things from collecting and causing issues down the road. Once you've mastered this (I haven't yet) then work on lowering some of the levels to see if you can make any improvements.
The amount of food available in the water column is the key to coral health and coloration. Period.
The commonality with all great looking tanks, regardless of test levels, is heavy feeding.
We go overboard measuring Po and N to try and keep parameters under control, and this hurts some as much as it helps others. I don't think we know exactly what levels of nitrates and phosphates hurt corals, I think a heavily fed tank with high phosphates will look better than one not heavily fed with lower phosphates. At the same time I think a heavily fed tank with lower phosphates will look best of all ...
... but how much better, and does it matter?
I've seen so many threads of corals harmed by GFO and other nutrient control measures, so why do some show more concern over high nitrates and phosphates than they do over stripping the water in a newer tank which leads to coral deaths? Someone was extremely concerned about people adding nitrate and phosphate to their water (which I agree is a BAD idea), but I doubt this would do as much damage as adding GFO and lowering parameters too fast or too low.
Anyway, my take away is FEED MORE NOW and have a ton of flow to keep food suspended for as long as possible. Get the water full of things corals can feed on while at the same time having good export mechanisms to keep bad things from collecting and causing issues down the road. Once you've mastered this (I haven't yet) then work on lowering some of the levels to see if you can make any improvements.
CW from the OC
New member
Yeah! What Mark Said!!
