Guess the Phosphate level

I can understand it is good to be able to read your tank and not chase numbers but when something is not rite (ie color or polyp ext) don't you then need to test to tell you what is out of wack?
Or do you just wing it and add a little bit of this and a little bit of that to fix the situation?

I still have test kits and wouldn't hesitate to use them but unless something looks off I don't just systematically test. I haven't measured phosphates in weeks and see no reason to as everything is growing and has good color.
 
Thales,

Forgive me as I am late to the game :)

Tried to read through most of the threat but found myself skipping around focusing on your responses to posts which allowed me to get through the majority of it. If someone else already touched upon the following perhaps you can point me to the post.

I for one appreciate what you have done here. That is, that sometimes conventional thinking to an otherwise mostly misunderstood and unconventional hobby has made us victims of following like sheeple. I know, I know you are not condoning anyone follow your formula as you have made it clear (at least to me) that you, yourself do not know what that formula is. Anyway, its refreshing that after 16 yeas in the hobby (still consider myself a baby) there are moments when you come across something that turns everything you thought you understood as right-side-up into up-side-down and sideways. BUT... somehow what you are doing works and pics of your tank is proof pudding. Anyone seeing that has to ask why/how? I love it! so thank you.

Thanks!
Ok, enough with that. Was wondering if you have taken any thought to the Redfield ratio? I agree, that although Redfield studied reefs around the world this may/may not apply to a closed eco-system in the same ratio of 16N:1P:106C as set forth by Redfield in his studies of ocean reefs. There may however be something you are doing that is connected??? you mentioned in your last comment "imagined golden zone". So obviously you are not within the Redfield ratio but certainly some sort of, not so imagined "golden zone"

I have thought about it, but there doesn't seem to be a practical way to keep on top of those ratios.

I would like to think that there is some kind of bio load vs. export golden zone that your tank is in. <<< that's because my brain wants to rationalize what is going on. So, I'm wondering, are you actually measuring all bio load that you are adding to the tank by any chance? Reason I ask is because that's where I'm at right now with my tank. Using a peristaltic pump to measure food going in (at least the amount of it not content). <<< not sure if that means a whole lot because we all know that nutrient import is introduced mainly through food but not ONLY. I've set up an automatic feeding system that is somewhat consistent in what it dispenses into the tank in the hope that my bio pellets can populate bacteria population to uptake this load. So, it would be very interesting for me to know the amount of food you put in and if by chance you currently use bio-pellets or implement any kind of carbon dosing?

I put a lot of food into the tank, mostly RN products. Haven't measured them, but I'll see if I can (this is the problem with being an aquarist for a living - I don't necessarily want or have time to do stuff I do at work all day at home!). I like the idea of 'flood feeding' where I feed heavily so I know everything gets food. I bounce between auto dosing food and flood feeding, but flood feeding seems easier, so I haven't re set up my auto feeder. No bio pellets for me, not at all sold on them, and seen too many problems arise because of their addition.

So far my fairly recent conversion (6 months in the making) of my mostly softies with some LPS to mostly SPS with some LPS is going fairly well. My system is fairly established though (16 year tank with one move). Its interesting to note that when I kept softies which I found to be more tolerant of dirty water. my tank was tested typically at 40 No3. Now-a-days it tests around 8 No3 and .04 Po4 and able to grow SPS from frags (I like pain,lol) with moderate to good growth <<< whatever that means :D

LOL

BTW, wondering if you went with an inland aquatics ATS? you mentioned a see-saw setup and I know that they have developed something like that. I too would love to see your ATS setup also when you get time to take pics. in the mean time, I'm sure you know the work of Dr. Walter Adey http://www.algalturfscrubber.com/

Yep that is the one. Lit with reefbrite strips.
 
What a terrific thread, definitely one of the best on RC.

Richard, thank you for sharing your experience with us and for making me think (it's an interesting sensation). Keeping a reef successfully for 10+ years is quite an achievement and certainly is not a very common thing.

You mentioned mechanical filtration in your article. What's your take on filter socks?

I hate filter socks being run on a regular basis because you have to clean them. I found that at home, when I ran filter socks I ignored them for too long so I stopped using them.
 
yes..stonecold's tank (current totm) is certainly a bit of an outlier and is spectacular..
his n isn't particularly low either..
makes you wonder..

Thales, what are you lighting your ats with?

The reefbrite strips it came with.

sorry, i forgot.. have you been or have you ever used a refugium with submerged algae growing? if so, what lighting were you using for it?

Never a 'fuge really. The 180 sump is kinda like a fuge and when I was growing macro algae I used a 65 watt LOA flood light from home depot.
 
I can understand it is good to be able to read your tank and not chase numbers but when something is not rite (ie color or polyp ext) don't you then need to test to tell you what is out of wack?

Absolutely. In my case usually the salinity is off. :D I have a partially written article that discusses how to track down the cause of issues.

Or do you just wing it and add a little bit of this and a little bit of that to fix the situation?

And at the same time, this is a lot of the reality in the hobby, as there is so much that we add that we don't/can't test for.
 
Absolutely. In my case usually the salinity is off. :D I have a partially written article that discusses how to track down the cause of issues.

I can relate to that. This week, I noticed that about half my acros along with half my montis and a pocillopora looked a bit "off". Turned out my salinity had drifted down to 32ppt, whoops.
 
well im not an expert but its just my observation. I see a tank full from top to bottom with corals and we wonder why its successful with such high nutrient levels. algae doesn't grow on coral. also, algae doesn't grow well when its competing with something else for the same food source. Well all know corals use up phosphates and nitrates. So if you have the same bioload as this guy, yes you can have a successful reef tank with high nutrients, otherwise prepare to grow a whole lot of algae. JMO
 
Rich your tank is in imminent danger. You should frag your 10 favorite SPS and send to me so I can safe guard them. :loll:

I like your article. It gives hope to those of us that do not chase the numbers all the time.
 
Hey Rich, just curious - how do you keep blue-stripe pipefish in a tank with that much flow? Any tricks or tips?

The tank is scaped in basically two levels, the lower level has lots of cut outs and cave and hidey holes. It may get less flow than the rest, but that is hard to tell. Either way there is more boundary layer. That said, I think it may be incorrect that these fish need low flow. Mostly that idea seems to come from fish being seen on dive sites where there isn't much flow - but that doesn't mak sense because you don't dive those sites when the current is ripping.
Perhaps though, the tip would be feed the crap out of the tank so there is a ton of stuff for the pipe to eat.
 
well im not an expert but its just my observation. I see a tank full from top to bottom with corals and we wonder why its successful with such high nutrient levels. algae doesn't grow on coral. also, algae doesn't grow well when its competing with something else for the same food source. Well all know corals use up phosphates and nitrates. So if you have the same bioload as this guy, yes you can have a successful reef tank with high nutrients, otherwise prepare to grow a whole lot of algae. JMO

Charles thinks something similar may be at work, but not about the algae growth. Bryopsis absolutely grows on coral!
Though the nitrate and phosphate is still high, even if the corals are using them. If they weren't they wouldn't test as high. The levels are still high, regardless of coral cover. Hmm.
 
Rich your tank is in imminent danger. You should frag your 10 favorite SPS and send to me so I can safe guard them. :loll:

I like your article. It gives hope to those of us that do not chase the numbers all the time.

Thanks Waz! Chris wants some frags...you headed up there anytime soon?
 
Glad to see this thread still around. Cant wait for more updates! This thread should be served with popcorn!
 
well im not an expert but its just my observation. I see a tank full from top to bottom with corals and we wonder why its successful with such high nutrient levels. algae doesn't grow on coral. also, algae doesn't grow well when its competing with something else for the same food source. Well all know corals use up phosphates and nitrates. So if you have the same bioload as this guy, yes you can have a successful reef tank with high nutrients, otherwise prepare to grow a whole lot of algae. JMO


I believe this to be the case.
 
Back
Top