Hawaiian Collection Legislation
- Thread starter mrcrab
- Start date
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
No it isn't. You're trying to discredit the concerns of this bill because Bob didn't go after what you deem the biggest problem. Did Mother Teresa tackle the largest problem facing humanity? That's obviously up for debate. Get it? Not apples and oranges.
Sorry, that is not how it is. Snorkel bob is by no means comparable to mother Teresa.
The bill was written for Maui. There is only one collector in Maui. That collector got into an argument with Snorkel bob. Snorkel bob also has a store on Oahu. Now Maui and Oahu are on the bill.
Aquarium fish collectors are easy targets. people will shut down the aquarium trade saying "those fish shouldn't be caught". What do they say when they sit down to eat some fish for dinner. Nothing.
The aquarium trade in Hawaii is not making a large impact on the fish populations. Fish caught for consumption and urban/agriculture runoff are the problems that are going to put Hawaii in peril. The Aquarium fish collection on Oahu is not something that needs banned.
There does need to be more regulations but that should be imposed by the Dept. of Land and Natural Resources who actually know about fishing. Not some politician that only cares about who paid for his campaign (Snorkel Bob).
Snorkel Bob = Mother Teresa. You have to be kidding! obviously you have never met the man. Have you even seen his website where he calls you (someone who keeps an aquarium) equivalent to a pedophile. that doesn't seem like something mother Teresa would say.
The bill was written for Maui. There is only one collector in Maui. That collector got into an argument with Snorkel bob. Snorkel bob also has a store on Oahu. Now Maui and Oahu are on the bill.
Aquarium fish collectors are easy targets. people will shut down the aquarium trade saying "those fish shouldn't be caught". What do they say when they sit down to eat some fish for dinner. Nothing.
The aquarium trade in Hawaii is not making a large impact on the fish populations. Fish caught for consumption and urban/agriculture runoff are the problems that are going to put Hawaii in peril. The Aquarium fish collection on Oahu is not something that needs banned.
There does need to be more regulations but that should be imposed by the Dept. of Land and Natural Resources who actually know about fishing. Not some politician that only cares about who paid for his campaign (Snorkel Bob).
Snorkel Bob = Mother Teresa. You have to be kidding! obviously you have never met the man. Have you even seen his website where he calls you (someone who keeps an aquarium) equivalent to a pedophile. that doesn't seem like something mother Teresa would say.
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
IMO, the best thing opponents of this bill could do is to work to get this data published.
If the data is strong, complete, and reliable ... then there's a lot more of a case to make. And if it supports current collection management strategies ... then it would be mostly case closed IMO.
But if it's all unpublished data, IMO it is about as useful as uncollected data ... none.
And thus snorkel bob and those who oppose his claims mostly seem have the same anecdotal data ... which will only convince their side.
If the data is there, what can be done to get it published/etc to get it into the discussion?
Just a thought... Are there any experienced Hawai'ian fish enthusiasts who are breeding endangered Hawai'ian fish and releasing them back into the wild to replenish the supply of fish? Is this currently being done by private individuals?
Is the government of Hawai'i against this?
This is a super interesting thread because reef and marine conservation policies made in Hawai'i are going to be watched by the rest of the tropical world and if it is a success story, we hope they will enact similar policies.
Definitely very interesting and I am going to be watching this one...
Is the government of Hawai'i against this?
This is a super interesting thread because reef and marine conservation policies made in Hawai'i are going to be watched by the rest of the tropical world and if it is a success story, we hope they will enact similar policies.
Definitely very interesting and I am going to be watching this one...
kaptken
New member
Captive breeding and releasing is a noble thought. But as the northwest coast salmon farming industry has found, releasing or escaping captive raised salmon from narrow genetic strains creates gentetic bottlenecks that make the general population susceptible to die off from single source viruses, and deseases, and weakens the herd. It reduces genetic diversity over a few generations and goes against natures built in safeties.
the problem is captive breeding produces high survivability from a very few genetic lines of egg/larvae harvesting which then dilutes diversity in the wild strains. So when one fish goes AH-CHOO!! they all die.
the problem is captive breeding produces high survivability from a very few genetic lines of egg/larvae harvesting which then dilutes diversity in the wild strains. So when one fish goes AH-CHOO!! they all die.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
wildcaught the only real supply
wildcaught the only real supply
Enough hype!
Much of the captive breeding hype is a dishonest gambit to make people support certain business ventures and grant ventures at the expense of the only real fish supply.
The only real fish supply possible is the natural, God given one, the one that feeds fisherman and the one that sustains well when collected properly.
However, because working with villagers to train them in collecting well is not what lab people do, they avoid this real answer and focus on the one that sustains and pays them.
The real solutions lie in collector training of a thousand species, not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill of clownfish and a token few other species.
This playing the flute while Rome burns is no answer, no strategy and has no chance of actually saving much of anything.
The combined poundage of all the cultured marine tropicals ever created was dwarfed in yesterday fish collecting totals.
Lets be real people.
Aquaculture is interesting , fun and allows city people to become involved in the fishery....but believing it to be on track to save anything significant while the real dangers go un- confronted is fooling ourselves. Choosing weak, token remedies out of personal conveninece and ambition is no recipe for real progress.
Why un-confronted? Simply because it does not pay well to do so and "reform" is not seen as profitable venture. That is the real issue.
Steve
Feed fisherman...buy netcaught-wildcaught fishes!
wildcaught the only real supply
Enough hype!
Much of the captive breeding hype is a dishonest gambit to make people support certain business ventures and grant ventures at the expense of the only real fish supply.
The only real fish supply possible is the natural, God given one, the one that feeds fisherman and the one that sustains well when collected properly.
However, because working with villagers to train them in collecting well is not what lab people do, they avoid this real answer and focus on the one that sustains and pays them.
The real solutions lie in collector training of a thousand species, not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill of clownfish and a token few other species.
This playing the flute while Rome burns is no answer, no strategy and has no chance of actually saving much of anything.
The combined poundage of all the cultured marine tropicals ever created was dwarfed in yesterday fish collecting totals.
Lets be real people.
Aquaculture is interesting , fun and allows city people to become involved in the fishery....but believing it to be on track to save anything significant while the real dangers go un- confronted is fooling ourselves. Choosing weak, token remedies out of personal conveninece and ambition is no recipe for real progress.
Why un-confronted? Simply because it does not pay well to do so and "reform" is not seen as profitable venture. That is the real issue.
Steve
Feed fisherman...buy netcaught-wildcaught fishes!
The salmon fishery suffers the twin evils of habitat degradation (particularly of spawning rivers) and over fishing. Sustainable wild caught fisheries (of any kind) need to rely on healthy habitat and catch quotas that allow for sustainable yields. Fisheries biologists can generally do a very good job of figuring sustainable yields for a species. However, by the time the biologist's recommendations make it thru the political process to become regulations, the final result is more political than scientific. Hence we end up with "regulated" fisheries that still collapse.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
political biology
political biology
Yes, Yes..Bill.
We understand how it works in poor countires who filter science thru politics and suffer from corrupt administration.
But what about America? :]
Steve
political biology
Yes, Yes..Bill.
We understand how it works in poor countires who filter science thru politics and suffer from corrupt administration.
But what about America? :]
Steve
Works quite the same in America, as well as internationally 
Just look at things like the The International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas and the state of Bluefin Tuna stocks. Same as happened with Codfish, Yellow Tail Flounder, etc, etc. Just higher dollar amounts at play and a better white wash job.
Just look at things like the The International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas and the state of Bluefin Tuna stocks. Same as happened with Codfish, Yellow Tail Flounder, etc, etc. Just higher dollar amounts at play and a better white wash job.cortez marine
In Memoriam
And environmentally devastating yet certified shrimp from Walmart and certified tropical fish from the Marine Aquarium Council....with the biggest cyanide fish buyers in the world on board with it....
Politics is as usual only now with science for sale .
We are not speaking in absolutes but its a disheartening trend so see how easily the public falls for environmental pretentions.
Steve
Politics is as usual only now with science for sale .
We are not speaking in absolutes but its a disheartening trend so see how easily the public falls for environmental pretentions.
Steve
cortez marine
In Memoriam
Bill,
Nothing new?
Most people are oblivious and the eco-trendy types actually believe the McDonalds hamburger paper on the environment and that a certification certificate is the very definition of substance and genuinity.
I see the slowly growing realization among us that "the emperor may have no clothes" to be very new.
Nothing new?
Most people are oblivious and the eco-trendy types actually believe the McDonalds hamburger paper on the environment and that a certification certificate is the very definition of substance and genuinity.
I see the slowly growing realization among us that "the emperor may have no clothes" to be very new.
The masses starting to realize the problems may be a bit new. I think the internet and resulting fast spread of information has been helpful for that. But there are still a lot of people that have no a clue as to the problems of cyanide fishing for tropicals and habitat destruction of shrimp farms.
Similar threads
