healthy fish hard to get now a days?

[lagatbezan]

I have been in this hobby for over 15 years and it seems that in the last few years its getting harder and harder to get healthy fish and that the survival rate seems to be less then 25%. I qt everything (TTM + Prazi) and make sure they get a varied diet and eat well, but most don't seem to make it past qt. Its as if they are mostly coming in with already weakened immune system, parasites and/or cyanide poisoning that they are doomed from day one regardless of where the fish is purchased.
anyone else experiencing the same or is it just me?

 

[Frank H]

Do you buy from the same store or are you getting the same results from multiple stores?

 

[billdogg]

I buy all my livestock from a trusted lfs. The couple of losses I have had were quickly replaced.

 

[homer1475]

Do you buy from the same store or are you getting the same results from multiple stores?

I wonder this same thing.

I buy all my livestock from a trusted lfs. The couple of losses I have had were quickly replaced.

Same, but even the 1 or 2 I purchased from PETCO, other then ich they were relatively healthy.

Ive been in and out of the marine part of the hobby for about 20 or so years and have found just the opposite. We keep way more delicate fish with relative ease and way less loss of life compared to a few years back.

 

[Exceptionrule]

Most of the fish in my tank are from people who needed to take down their tanks. If you're not in a rush to stock or are super picky, adopting fish is not only a great way to discourage fish collection in the wild, but also one with a safer transition imo. That being said, as irresponsible as it may be, I've never qted a fish nor have I ever lost one because I didn't.

 

[lagatbezan]

Do you buy from the same store or are you getting the same results from multiple stores?

No from a few different local stores. for example I recently attempted twice at a bicolor angel and lost both of them and they were each from a different store. (they were one after another and not together).
They were eating great lasted for 3-4 weeks in qt and then boom, stopped eating and dead. My only guess is maybe cyanide because they were eating great and still looking skinny and I had treated for internal parasites as well.
Its just sad.

 

[thegrun]

I think it's just the opposite; fish seem healthier to me at least from many years ago when cyanide poison was used much more frequently to catch fish.

 

[lagatbezan]

I think it's just the opposite; fish seem healthier to me at least from many years ago when cyanide poison was used much more frequently to catch fish.

years ago I used to just be able to buy them and just acclimate and in the tank they went and most lived with no issues but now a days its a near guaranteed tank wipe-out with all the nasty flukes, uronema, velvet, ect.
Maybe its just me and/or i have yet to find that "reputable" dealer in my area?

 

[nereefpat]

for example I recently attempted twice at a bicolor angel and lost both of them and they were each from a different store.

aren't most bicolor angels quite difficult to keep alive?

I feel your pain, believe me. Getting healthy livestock, mostly because of my location, has easily been the most difficult part of the hobby for me.

 

[A sea K]

years ago I used to just be able to buy them and just acclimate and in the tank they went and most lived with no issues but now a days its a near guaranteed tank wipe-out with all the nasty flukes, uronema, velvet, ect.
Maybe its just me and/or i have yet to find that "reputable" dealer in my area?

This was my experience as well. In the last 2 years I have had some issue with the first being flukes, lost most of my fish before I could figure out what the problem was. I currently have another issue altogether, At first I thought it too was flukes but now it is becoming painfully evident that it is either velvet or brook and I really cant identify which as the symptoms are so similar.

 

[ca1ore]

I don't find that to be the case at all. It does depend, of course, on the difficulty level of the fish that you are buying. For example, if you are buying just leopard wrasse then high losses are likely. Anthias have also been problematic lately with many coming in with body ulcerations. Simply underscores the necessity for QT.

 

[ca1ore]

No from a few different local stores. for example I recently attempted twice at a bicolor angel and lost both of them and they were each from a different store. (they were one after another and not together).

One thing to consider is that even multiple stores may be sourcing from a common distributor.

 

[OceansMotion]

Cyanide isnt really used much anymore. Most of deaths come from stress. Stress from catching, put into a bag to the holding tank, off to the middle man then baged again and you bring it home. Also has to acclimate to each system which is more stress because every system is different. Stress can weaken the immune system and let parasites take hold.
Ive only had a handful of fish die soon after acclimation. Ive seen some people have really good luck and some people literally have no luck at all.

Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk

 

[lagatbezan]

One thing to consider is that even multiple stores may be sourcing from a common distributor.

Yeah you are right, I didn't think about that aspect of it. I understand the stress aspect of the fish being shipped from the other side of the world and changing hands and tanks till they get to us, but my experience lately has been that they are doing great for a few weeks and suddenly they perish. They eat and act great and they go on a hunger strike ,get thinner and dead within a few days.
from reading all the posts in the forums here my prime suspects pointed to flukes, internal parasites or cyanide and with me treating with prazipro and general cure my only other "guess" is cyanide.
From what I read, its seems that some part of Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand and Maldives are still using cyanide as part of their process in catching fish since local laws are not really enforced there. how true, I'm not sure.
Maybe something else I'm missing or not treating with. I read others treating new fish with formalin dips. Maybe something I might attempt for new future livestock.

 

[Stolireef]

Not being a shill here but I've had great results buying from Diver's Den. While they don't 'QT' the fish, they are treated and observed for a few weeks before being shipped. I also like that they ship in 1.024-5 water.

This is going to sound like heresy, but I also think that most home QT's cause as much damage as good. You basically stick a fish that's just been through the most stressful experience imaginable into a ten gallon tank with no live rock and a back filter (ammonia can build up quickly with such weak biology). You then put it through chemotherapy (high power antibiotics, copper, TTM, etc.). Most don't have ATO's so you likely have swings in salinity. After six weeks of this, you move it into yet another environment where it suddenly has to compete for food, hiding places, etc. The next day, fish is upside down sticking to your overflow.

I'm not saying that QT can't be done right but I would be willing to bet that most QT's closely mimic what I described. If that's you then you're better off just doing a quick acclimation and putting the fish directly into your tank.

And for the close of this rant...wild fish have to deal with every disease we see in this hobby. The strongest and healthiest have an immune system that can fight off all of these diseases and they live to a ripe old age. Once again, I'm not against proper healthy QT but the best thing you can do for your fish is to provide a truly healthy and save environment for your fish in your DT. Feed quality foods, manage water quality carefully, understand compatability, etc.

Rant over and sorry for the long post.

 

[Stolireef]

Oh, and I should add that I'm guilty of the lousy QT described above. I don't have the room or the inclination to properly maintain a QT. That said, I don't lose many fish and haven't had to deal with any serious marine diseases.

 

[ca1ore]

I cannot speak to how others do QT, and it may well be that QT done poorly is worse than none at all. Seems to me that 'sticking a fish that's been through the most stressful experience imaginable' into a tank full of well fed bullies waiting to beat the crap out of it ain't the primrose path either ...... Just sayin. Doing QT right is really quite trivial and I can say with full confidence of experience that my success rates with new fish are much higher because I do QT.

 

[Exceptionrule]

Oh, and I should add that I'm guilty of the lousy QT described above. I don't have the room or the inclination to properly maintain a QT. That said, I don't lose many fish and haven't had to deal with any serious marine diseases.

Could be luck, or a slew of other variables, however, given the choice, I'd most certainly spend more for a properly qted and cared for fish if buying from an lfs. Luckily, where I live, there are many lfs that genuinely care and spend the time to quarantine before selling.

 

[Stolireef]

You are both right. QT done well is a good idea. That said, IMO, QT done well is pretty unusual and I'm exhibit A. I've been in the hobby for decades and I just don't do it properly. That's why I heavily vet where I buy my fish.

All in all, and I know this is a bit out of the norm, but fish are really just an adornment for corals in my tank (wife and kids of course think otherwise). If ich or another disease hit my fish, I'd be fine with going fallow for three or four months. If I could afford to set up a good frag tank, I'd be completely on board with setting up a coral QT.

 

[JimON]

That's why I heavily vet where I buy my fish.

Care to share where, sir, for those of us in the valley, and just getting started? TIA!