HELP! Clam Under PC, With Sudden Severe Illness

[Jive Turkey]

This ones for you troubleshooters who don't mind reading. lol

I recieved a free 3" Ultra Maxima in an order from ReeferMadness about 5 months ago. Very nice pattern with mostly black coloration, with emerald highlights. It was somewhat of an impulse "buy" because it was free, though I had read a few bad reports of clams under PCs, along with some good ones.
I thought I had succeeded because the clam was growing and always had a perfect inhalent siphon. The clam did have a bit of central bleaching that IMO was due to the FedEx shipment being held overnight in Indianapolis en route from LA to Minnesota.
The clam is in my 29g, with dual 96w PC. It rests 14 in. below the bulbs, and is firmly attached to a piece of baserock that extends below the sands surface. I feed the tank DTs, and a bit of Kent MicroVert for the filter feeding softies. I dose Kent Kalk., Iodine, Superbuffer dKH, CoralVite, Strontium/Molyb., and Essential Elements in recommended amounts. I test for Cal., Alk., pH regularly, and Phos., Nitrate, and Ammonia occasionally. All levels are perfect, except the Cal. which is high at 490.

So the problem began last night, with the clam looking great as I did a 15% WC and scraped glass last evening. Now, this morning, the clam has retracted its mantle to the edge of the shell, and the mouth is gaping EXTREMELY. The mouth streches from shell to shell, and the center of the mantle looks like it is stretched tightly. It is still firmly attached to the rock and the minor central bleaching hasn't spread.

What can I do?? I am feeding the clam now in the tank with a 1 lt. bottle and some DTs. This is the first time I've target fed.
Is it time for a FW dip? A quart of FW with a tsp. of sugar for 30 minutes, correct? Shall I cut the threads and remove the clam, or will this be too much stress. I can't remove the rock, its too big.
I had checked the clam everyday for pyramid snails until it attached, about 12 consecutive days, 5 months ago. Nothing. I have picked 9 brown spikey nudis. that have a taste for zoathids though since then. I still check the clam about every other night with a flashlight too. No predators, I hope.

There has been no change now for the 8 hrs. the lights have been on. I am worried, please help.
Am I a fool for even having the clam 14" under my PCs?
Thanks, Joe

 

[traveller7]

5 months is a bit of time and the trouble starting with a water change is interesting.

Is it possible something occured during the water change process? Possible the carbon in an RO is toast, forgot to dechlor, local water authority is cleaning the pipes with higher levels of cholorine, etc.?

The freshwater dip is only going to be helpful with certain situations that your symptoms do not match. You'll likely be pushing the clam further into the grave by cutting it loose and dipping it.

I have kept a few clams in a deeper tank under dual 96watters but only derasa and squamosa.

Good luck.

 

[Jive Turkey]

PART TWO

PART TWO

I'll give some more info to avoid unnessecary questions.

Params: Cal. 490
Alk: 11
Phos: Undetectable
Nitrate: 0 ( A problem, maybe?)
Ammonia: 0
pH: 8.3-4
Sal: 1.026
Temp: 81-2

I use Aquarium Systems Test Kits, a electronic pH meter, and a plastic swing arm hydrometer that I have never compared to a refractometer.

Tank Inhabitants:
Fish: Ocellaris pair
Red Scootrer Blennie
Yellow Watchman( no sand-sifting on clam)

Corals and Inverts:
20 asst. small crabs
20 asst. snails, mostly stommatella
2 cleaners and a pistol shrimp

11" Sebae anemone that I grew, and am looking to trade in forum
6" Sinularia Flexibilis
3 Capnella, 2 2" and 1 6"
10 Ricordia Fl.
15 Mushrooms
16 varieties of zos, approx. 400
3 diff. Caulestrea, 15 polyps
4" Trach. Radiata( formerly Wellsophyllia)
2" Oulophyllia Crispata(Maze. Favites-like) (rare, and little info on it)
There are precautions for allelopathy because of the mixture of LPS and my Sin. Flex. such as spacing, WCs, aggressive skimming, and constant carbon.
No coral has ever made physical contact with the cl;am.

The skimmer is a dual CPR BakPak 2R running Rios, but not much longer.
I also use distilled water that is "lab-grade and ozonated for quality."

HTH, thanks Joe

 

[Jive Turkey]

Hmmmm

Hmmmm

The clam not seems to be expelling a 2" long brown strand of poo from the exhalent siphon. I've never seen this before. boohoo
The OB next to it is also pooing, but I don't think its the same stuff. The clams goo is a little darker.

 

[Jive Turkey]

With furthur research into the Pyramid Snail, including a very helpful Daniel Knopp article on predators of clams, I realize that I've seen one or two in my tank on the glass, they were a half inch long. They have been in the tank since the tank was establshed 11 mos. ago.
In the article, Knopp mentions that the snail reproduce very quickly and can grow into large numbers of small snails that will swarm on a clam. Is the a likely cause of my clams fate?
As I said above, I haven't lifted my clam to inspect it since it attached about four and a half months ago. I haven't seen any predators near the clam, as I check the tank out at night every other day to observe the night life. I do look as closely as possible also.
My question is: Is it a good idea to slice the threads and stress the clam to check out this possibility and do a FW dip, or just wait and see??
Some assistance, please. Joe

 

[traveller7]

1/2" long snails on the glass sounds more like a cerith type snail.

I am still of the opinion it is premature to cut the clam loose. It has been less then 24 hours after a water change, correct?

When your larger snails are on the glass have you seen any tiny snails near the foot opening? It does not appear you have any astreas but I frequently found pyramids attacking my larger astreas as well.

Have you seen any tiny white snails around the clams mantle edge?

Side note: pyramid snails survived a freshwater dip at my place

 

[Jive Turkey]

No, Traveller, I haven't seen anything around the clams foot. Especially not snail shaped like a "grain of rice". But the snails on glass are certainly not Cerith snails, as I have those also, and can tell them apart. They are both burrowing snails, but look different. They look exactly like the Knopp picture, 6mm with whitish sharp-pointed shell with brownish dots. I only think a have a few, I rarely see them.

 

[traveller7]

HR,

From the pyramids I have seen first hand they are "rice size" or smaller, but they are shaped like little ice cream cones.

Definitely keep a close eye around the base of your clam but also the mantle edge at night.

Can you post a picture of the snails?

Scott

 

[Jive Turkey]

Good news

Good news

Thanks for your help, Scott, I appreciate it.
I do not have any pics as I don't have dig. camera. Friends do, so I'll try.
BTW, they are shaped like a cone, white with brown dots in a row, rotating round the shell. They are about 1/3 of an inch.
I am an avid night-watcher, very interesting. No pests, except one. A tiny 1/8" mollusk(?) that was on the clam from the start, near the top, between the scutes. It was coralline covered, and looked like a rock. I never saw it open, even at night. I tried pulling the "rock" off last night with a small fishhook. To my surprise, the top shell of the mollusk pulled off, revealing a bit of brown guts inside that I puuled out with a baster, and set a crab on it, which ate it right away. The bottom, empty shell is still securely in place. Very tough to remove.

There is good news though. After two short DTs feedings last afternoon and evening that resulted in phyto chunks being coughed up the second time from clogged gills, the clam is greatly improved, except for one thing. There is a tiny bit more central bleaching around the exhalent siphon. Weak. That would explain the long, brown string the clam was expelling through the exhalent.
There is full mantle extension again with moderate gaping. The 3/4" mouth is now open about 1/4" wide, but I can again see the points that surround the mouth. Yesterday, it couldn't have been any wider, shell to shell.

Is it likely that the hitchhiker suddenly "broke through?" It has been in place for 5 months at least with no problems yet.
Could the clam have just been hungry? I had never target fed before, but do give 25 drops of DTs every other day .
The central bleaching and loss of zoox worries me. There are no indications of rust or pollution with metals, although I do not test. I should be using RO/DI, and not distilled.
I plan on changing bulbs this week, is has been 11 months now. I am going to target feed now routinely too, the clam gobbled it up. Should I slice the clam and put it on the rockwork, raised up so only 7" from bulbs?

What do ya think?? Joe

 

[Sloth]

Ooohh. I've heard of mollusks that bore into clam shells. I dont remember what they are, but I read about them online and I saw them on the Discovery channel. They slowly grind and grind a perfect circular hole until they get through and then, sluuuuurp.

On the Discovery channel, they were showing this one snail (i think) that would do this, and the mussels it was preying on would attach bissel threads to it and imobilize it. Pretty amazing. What's even more amazing is that they said someone did a study once and found that the mussels usually died before the snail bored all the way through. They speculated that the mussels most often died of heart attacks!:eek2:

Maybe your clam was about to have a heart attack and you saved him.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Maybe not such a long-shot after all.
The byssal thread theory would explain why I can remove the bottom shell. I bent a #6 fishhook, geez.

Thanks.

 

[traveller7]

Joe,

Your description sounds like the critter was an oyster. Their secretions become quite strong as you have discovered. It was not likely an offending culprit but better safe then sorry.

The description of the snails is very concerning.

Stick with the feeding regimen(25 drops is not enough IMHO) and be very cautious when you replace the bulbs. Lots of reasons for bleaching and unfortunately a bleached specimen could bleach further if subjected to an extreme lighting change.

Raise the lights higher off the water and or reduce the photo period for a week or so to allow the clam to adjust.

Glad to hear it is looking a bit better.

Scott

 

[Pfittttz]

I use Aquarium Systems Test Kits, a electronic pH meter, and a plastic swing arm hydrometer that I have never compared to a refractometer.

the swing arm hydrometers are notorious for being inacurate. Perhaps the clam and OB were shocked with a change in salinity since this happened right after the water change.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Its possible. I know they're junk. But the results with the hydrometer don't change frquently during storage and use, do they?
I thought they were innacurate from the start, and stayed the same from then on. I have calibrated it to 3 other swing-arms, and they are all almost the same.

I thing I may have figured out the culprit.
I usually mix and aerate my SW for at least 24 hrs. before a WC. In this case, I added about 3/4 of a tsp. of Kent Superbuffer dKH to my mixing bucket with 2 gallons to maintain my alk. at a high end level. I do this WC about twice a month. But this time, there was a strictly granular residue left inside my MJ 900 and my bucket that I just found yesterday. They grains were white and the size of this period. I have never seen these before, andhave been using IO salt for the last year, but usually don't add the Superbuffer to my mixing SW. I used the last of the salt with this WC, also. It was about 4 months old and is kept in a sealed Rubbermaid container.

Could there have been a chemical reaction between 2 gallons of mixing 1.026 Instant Ocean SW and 3/4 tsp. of Kent SB dKH that was mixed and aerated for about 30 hrs? This high level of SB could have messed with the chemical properties, right?

Opinions, please. Thanks, Joe

 

[Aaron1100us]

Did anyone catch the part about a maxima being 14 inches down from 96w of PC lights? That isn't even close for the amount of light a maxima needs. You need a metal halide for one of those.

 

[dave2184]

Reread dual 96 watter's

 

[Aaron1100us]

Opps, missed the dual part, still not enough light though IMO. That might not be what is causeing his problems that he has now though.

 

[traveller7]

Opps, missed the dual part, still not enough light though IMO. That might not be what is causeing his problems that he has now though.

It is pushing the lower limits, but with adequate feeding, bulbs that are properly ventilated (so they don't crap out in 3 mons), they can work. If it were my money, they would be 150HQI's.

 

[Jive Turkey]

'bout time!

'bout time!

I am surprised I haven't yet been scolded by teh MH posse?

I was pleased by the health of the clam for the 5 months Ihad had it. Then one day, a very ill clam. Total retraction, huge gaping. It seemed very unlikely although I knew the lights were the lower limit.
I would like to know what cause the clam to do that.
The lack of heavy DTs feeding, or not target feeding? The lower limit lighting because of placement on the sand? The tiny mollusk on the shell? The waterchange with the dose of Kent Superbuffer dKH?
I am still perplexed, still worried. Keep in mind, the clam lost a little zoox. in the central mantle due to the day of illness. Does this point to anything??

BTW, thanks for the help, everyone Joe

 

[lebowski]

Not to bash RM or anything, but I've noticed that EVERY clam from RC that has been posted here and I've READ has died... I have no idea why, I'd never buy an RM clam.