High ORP (>500) Causing poor SPS polyp extension?

[Oldtimer]

Right now, I agree based on what I'm seeing, but from where I have no idea.

I'm limited on water change capacity based on my holding tank storage. 15% is about 60 gallons and that's all the tank will hold. I do have another one with RO/DI used for top off that I'll swap over throughout the night and do another W/C below.... also, RO unit only makes 75 gpd.

I have BRS Rox that I'm going to fill the fluidized reactor with here in a moment.

 

[noobtothereef]

Yes it would have to be some sort of contaminates for fish to just start dying and sps to start dying as well, many people run ulns's and doesnt hurt the fish or corals any, like mentioned above, huge water changes and LOTS of carbon, your po4 test kit might show 0 but there is traces in the system if you feed the tank anything, so i would rule out low p04 issues.

 

[Oldtimer]

I just finished the W/C and swapped out the old Rox in the reactor for fresh Rox. It holds about 1.2 liters or 5 cups so that's a bit more than 1/2 the amount Boomer suggested, but I don't have any more at the moment or I'd throw it in. I'll have to stop by the LFS tomorrow and get some of theirs along with some more salt so I can do another W/C tomorrow.

I'm still stumped as to what this could be. Aside from the recent addition of Coral Aminos and Zooplanktos-L there's really nothing that could have entered the system aside from my hands, the usual BRS 2 part solution, corals, fish, BRS Rox, salt, Rod's reef food, Formula Two Flake, DT's phytoplankton, Sprung's sea elements/strontium and RO/DI water from my top off. As mentioned above, I only use vinegar for cleaning and never dumped any in the water either for that matter. I have lids on my sump and the entire system is housed in a fish room that is very clean and well ventilated/conditioned. Unless my wife was really annoyed by me lately and decided to secretly go buy some bleach and toss it in the tank, I have no clue what this could be. No one smokes in the house, no one uses aresol sprays or cleaners of any kind.

 

[Oldtimer]

Could be total coincidence, but I'm hoping it's actually a good sign - my green digi is showing the best polyp extension I've seen in the past week. While not great, it's noticeably better as polyp's are showing on the whole coral instead of the usual small patch here or there. Hoping for the best. I'm going to try and do a larger water change tomorrow. I have 60 gallons of fresh RO/DI on hand for top off. I'm going to set 20 gallons aside for top off and claim the rest for salt water. This way I should be able to change about 100 gallons tomorrow.

At least I feel like this seems to be the right direction now. It was seeint the aptasia that really made me question the whole low P04 issue. Those things are practically indestructible.

 

[oct2274]

I would also suggest tracking down whatever is putting stray voltage into your tank. It's great that you have a titanium ground probe, but that should be more of a safety precaution vs a fix. It could be that something is cracked and leaking or leaching off something that is effecting the livestock.

 

[Oldtimer]

I'll look into it further. I suspect most would find that they have a volt or two in their tanks if they checked so I'm not convinced this is a problem unless it allowed something else to get into the tank and contaminate the water (e.g., potting material or something leaked out of a pump) - doubtful. The internal pumps in the system consist of two Vortechs (obviously no electrical components in the water with these), a Tunze 6105, a Tunze Wavebox, a red dragon for the skimmer and an Eheim 1250 for the carbon reactor. Excluding probes, there are no other electrical items in the tank other than the heater which I swapped out for another just to be safe. I noticed that I had left my old cracked and siliconed conductivity probe in the sump last night. It's not electrically connected. It had a glass housing and cracked a few months ago due to overtightening it in the sump probe holder. I had siliconed the crack temporarily while waiting for the new probe. I had left the old one in the sump. I doubt this is of any significance, but I'm mentioning it anyway.

I'm still baffled.

I had around 40 gallons of new RO/DI made as of this morning on top of the 60 already made for top off so by the time I get home from work I should have plenty for both top off and a good 100 gal+ water change. Picking up some Tropicmarin pro reef salt on the way home. I ordered a couple 5 gallon buckets of the Red Sea Coral Pro Salt online last night. I like to mix these.

I hope to see at least some stability in the TN when I get home later.

 

[tmz]

Sorry for your loses.
The reactions by fish and cnidarians ,as you you describe them ,suggest some form of contaminant as previously noted. I'd do several water changes and run some polyfilter and/or cupramine as well as gac.

Was the tank sump or other equipment in the water sealed with any household siicone caulk. Some contain anti biological substances?

How about substrate and rock ? Is it new or used?

Stray current is another possibility.

Or it might just be: fish deaths from disease;coral problems from light or acclimation and aiptasia reacting to a neighboring snail or predator like a pepermint shrimp if you keep them.

Where is your redox now?

 

[Oldtimer]

Sorry for your loses.
The reactions by fish and cnidarians ,as you you describe them ,suggest some form of contaminant as previously noted. I'd do several water changes and run some polyfilter and/or cupramine as well as gac.

Was the tank sump or other equipment in the water sealed with any household siicone caulk. Some contain anti biological substances?

How about substrate and rock ? Is it new or used?

Stray current is another possibility.

Or it might just be: fish deaths from disease;coral problems from light or acclimation and aiptasia reacting to a neighboring snail or predator like a pepermint shrimp if you keep them.

Where is your redox now?

Thanks for the feedback. 1.2 liters of fresh BRS 0.8 Rox GAC running now. Water changes in progress. I have a polyfilter if needed so I'll keep that in mind.

The only silicone I used was about a teaspoon or less of aquarium grade for the conductivity probe.

Substrate in the DT is Caribsea Seaflor Special Grade and the substrate in the fuge is Kent Marine Biosediment. I've had the latter for several years stored in the original unopened sealed containers. The former was purchased just before setting up the system. All was unused before going into my system.

Rock is a combination of 80% reef saver rock from Bulk Reef Supply and 20% Live Rock from my LFS which is a very trusted place.

I checked for current from each tank and got nothing even on a milliamp scale.

Fish deaths from disease would seem unlikely since I only had 3 fish in the system for the last few months and none exhibited any signs of illness. They just nose dived for the worst during the power outage/surge event and died a day later. I chalked it up to stress but am convinced something else caused it since the 6 fish I added the very next day all died within 16 hours (rapid breathing, darting, etc.). No peppermint shrimp or other natural Aptasia predators exist in my system. Currently, aside from coral, I only have Mexican Turbos, Nassarius and Cerith snails plus some red and blue hermits in the tank.

Redox continues to hover in the low to mid 500 range and has not dropped significantly at any time. My Hanna handheld pH/ORP/temp meter tells me Redox is in the low 300's which seems to make more sense.

 

[Oldtimer]

I just got home and cracked open the Hanna ULR checker and P is 53 ppb (0.053 ppm or mg/l) which means 0.16 mg/l which is much more like what I'd expect to see. This means my P04 is not very low and lends further credence to the possibility that I have contaminant issue. I'm currently mixing up about 100 gallons of saltwater. Some of my corals look slightly better, but not steller while others are still looking as bad as they have been with STN continuing.

 

[Oldtimer]

FWIW I pulled the Vortechs and Tunzes and inspected them for any signs of rust or wear that would indicate a problem and found nothing. Also, I tried to pinpoint the source of the small stray voltage. It seems that the Tunze Wavebox is putting out the highest amount. With a probe directly on it while submerged, I can see as much as 2V AC. There is no outward sign of damage, etc. I still suspect that this is very typical for submerged pumps.

 

[Boomer]

Oldtimer

I think you are reading that meter wrong. It reads as PO4 or Phosphate not P

Low Range Phosphate - 0.00 to 2.50 mg/L

If the meter reads 0.053 ppm = 0.053 ppm PO4 or Phosphate


The LCD displays concentration in mg/L of phosphate.
Convert the ion concentration to P2O5 by multiplying by 1.49.
Convert the ion concentration to P (Phosphate) by multiplying by 0.33.

 

[neoalchemist74]

I would also suggest tracking down whatever is putting stray voltage into your tank. It's great that you have a titanium ground probe, but that should be more of a safety precaution vs a fix. It could be that something is cracked and leaking or leaching off something that is effecting the livestock.

+1 I had a similar situation and found that a magnetic thermometer was corroding into my tank. Also are you testing for strontium?

 

[Oldtimer]

No in-tank thermometers here, but I understand the point. Will keep thinking along those lines. No, not testing for Sr. Is it really that critical? I was adding some for a while, but far less than the noted dosage... about 1 capful to my system per week.

 

[Oldtimer]

Oldtimer

I think you are reading that meter wrong. It reads as PO4 or Phosphate not P

Low Range Phosphate - 0.00 to 2.50 mg/L

If the meter reads 0.053 ppm = 0.053 ppm PO4 or Phosphate


The LCD displays concentration in mg/L of phosphate.
Convert the ion concentration to P2O5 by multiplying by 1.49.
Convert the ion concentration to P (Phosphate) by multiplying by 0.33.

Thanks, but I don't have that model, but rather the less expensive version released earlier this year. It's model HI736 ULR. See link here...

http://www.hannachecker.com/manuals/Phosphorus.pdf

The conversion to P04 is 3.066 per my understanding and of course a factor of 1000 to get from ppb to ppm or mg/l.

 

[Oldtimer]

The seriatopora and digi's really have seemed to perk up tonight. I hope the trend continues for the others. Fingers crossed. I also unplugged the wavebox earlier just to see if it has an impact.

 

[bertoni]

That's a fair amount of phosphate. I agree that you're reading the device correctly. That might account for a lot of problems.

 

[Boomer]

OK, Oldtimer. And that is correct for that meter as are conversions

No, not testing for Sr. Is it really that critical?

Sr++ has nothing to do with your issues. Sr++ is just a substitute ion for Ca++ by a very small % in Aragonite. As far as that .16 ppm PO4 I do not think that is an issue at all especially with other dead animal. Many reef tank have PO4 that high and many LFS that have coral are way above that. The issue with PO4 is mostly when you move coral from a hi to a low or low to at hi PO4. environment.

 

[Oldtimer]

I'm not convinced P04 at this level is a concern either. I'm more concerned that neither the Tropicmarin nor D&D kits are easily readable at these levels. I'm going to check with them again today and see if I can believe that they may still be accurate and it's my eye that needs calibration.

In any case, P04 should be getting exported with the water changes so it should come down when I check again later today.

 

[tmz]

I have the other meter and I'm not clear on what your PO4 is. I personally wouldn't be worried about 0 .05 ppm or so if that's what it is.

Glad the digitata and setriatopora are looking better. Maybe reducing the photoperiod helped a bit. Perhaps?

 

[Oldtimer]

Hard to say for sure, but I suspect it has helped. I've now changed about 130 gallons out in total and have another 60 gallons mixing. I've resigned to doing 60-65 gallon changes at a time since I can best control the quality of the water going in this way. Plan to check paramaters later, but the corals are my best gauge right now. I bought a small frag of birds of paridise when I got the last round of fish. Only cost $15 and my intention was to have it be my indicator for the tank. If it stays healthy then I suspect what I'm doing is positive. On the other hand, if it starts looking poor like the others than I need to take a different approach. So far, it has never looked terrible and looks the same with perhaps 80% of the polyp extension of when it was in the store... so that continues to give me hope.

As for the meter, it measures P in ppb so you have to multiply by 3.066 to convert to P04 in ppb and then divide by 1000 to get P04 in ppm or mg/l. The normal range meter reads P04 in ppm IIRC so you shouldn't have to convert anything. I'm interested to see what it reads this afternoon.