Higher Calcium Level for SPS Growth? (vs Health)

[Myka]

but your corals look pale and starved for nutrients.
it looks to me like the turf algae is now removing all the nutrients and this is why you are getting such low p readings and 0 n readings.
i noticed you added some tiny hermits.. what about adding 40 astrea snails? and/or some algae grazing fish like a jewelled blenny or bristle toothed tang?
I think you need more physical algae control, Imo...
I have been in your exact situation and dropping nutrients or trying to, killed my corals. you need to get some aggressive grazers in there to remove that turf, physically and turn that turf into n and p for the corals..

This is exactly what I was going to reply to you. Tanks with all the nutrients tied up in algae are still tanks with nutrient-starved corals.

Your biggest issue right now is lack of clean up crew imo. I can't remember your tank size, it's not in your signature, but your pic looks like it might be 65-gallons?? I can't remember. Going by the pictures you posted of all the algae, for each 50 gallons, I'd be adding 6 Astraea, 3 Trochus, 3 Turbos, and 12 Scarlet Hermits.

Personally, I wouldn't be messing with ATS or anything like that. I've never dosed nitrate like Matt suggests, so I can't comment on that. It's obvious there is N and P in the tank, but the algae is taking it all up because your clean up crew sucks. The point of the clean up crew is to graze the algae down to a point where it is not visible, thus keeping the algae suspended in the water in the form of clean up crew poop. CUC poop has the N and P in it. This way you can control the N and P in the water column by balancing the amount of food going into the tank and having a CUC to match.

If you have a big enough clean up crew you can have HUGE N and P numbers and have ZERO algae in the tank. I maintain marine aquariums as my main source of income, and currently I have a tank that started at 750 ppm NO3 and 2.5 ppm PO4. The tank had hair algae on every surface, cyano covering half the hair algae, and dinoflagellates topping it all. It was a hot mess. The tank is much better now at 150 ppm NO3 and 1.5 ppm PO4, and even though these numbers are still horrendous, there are ZERO nuisance algae present in the tank due to a giant clean up crew that was added. I've been removing clean up crew now to back off as the nutrients are dropping to maintain the balance. You can let them die off, which achieves the same thing, but I prefer to remove them.

the thing about sps that have been through a lot of instability is that some of them go into a long hibernation of sorts. They can stay like that for months and then either bloom or die.[...]Like i said, i am coming out of the other end of a long battle with impatience and imbalance in my system.. some corals have died along the way and some have begun to come back. New ones that have been added more recently, since the tank is stable, are growing right off the bat.
i think that at this point it may be misleading to you to be gauging your tank's health by your old frags.. i'm not saying add new ones yet but once you have a consistent reading for n and a constant low p reading, you should try a couple new frags- but only after a few months after consistent n and p..

Agreed. Absolutely.

I did a close inspection. Nothing that caught my attention. Coral is shocked all around.

However it's not a Acro, and the other Acro's are fine. So I doubt it AEFW.

It's never really done well (possibly too low in the tank). I think the Salinity shock did it in.

Ah, it was a digi then. It looked a lot like a valida that I had that was terribly infected with AEFW.

 

[JB NY]

Your biggest issue right now is lack of clean up crew imo.

I completely agree, my rule of thumb is you should see snails all over the rocks when viewing the tank, if you don't you don't have enough snails.

 

[reefmutt]

Algae scrubber question.

I am planning more algae cleaning livestock, however I am also considering another alternative or compliment.

Is anyone out there running an algae scrubber on their SPS tank? And happy with the results

Would adding one allow me to feed fish and corals to my hearts content? Assuming I size one properly.

Or are there negative impacts like too much nutrient removal? Or other impacts on PO4 and NO3 which I am already having a hard time bringing up.

I just read this post and I haven't read anything else but I had to respond... You have no nutrients right now, your tank IS the algae scrubber at the moment. I personally feel that you should do nothing but get a cleaner crew in there. Don't change anything for the next few weeks at least...

 

[Myka]

Your biggest issue right now is lack of clean up crew imo.

I completely agree, my rule of thumb is you should see snails all over the rocks when viewing the tank, if you don't you don't have enough snails.

I personally feel that you should do nothing but get a cleaner crew in there.

:fish2:

 

[reefmutt]

many chemicals that we add to a reef are dangerous.. Probably all of them.
As the saying goes, 'it's the dose that makes the poison'
I was probably jumping the gun in adding nitrate..
Right now, I believe that you should be doing only one thing: clean up crew and not a small one, a globber you over the head clean up crew. Once the rocks are clean, then test your nutrients.
Don't change anything - not lighting, additives, temp, equipment, or calc/alk balance.
Just let the tank settle down a bit. I know exactly how frustrated and 'I gotta do something, right now!!' You feel. Been there. When you try to fix things right now, you are trying to take a step forward and actually taking two steps back.. Every well meaning action is only leading to greater imbalance.
I really feel that you need to stop tinkering right now. It'll be the best thing you can do at the moment..

 

[swk]

I really feel that you need to stop tinkering right now. It'll be the best thing you can do at the moment..

This! Minus the addition of a ROBUST CUC!

 

[Myka]

Yes, this whole thread is tinkering. SPS + tinkering = fail.

 

[sensei]

Wally,

definitively your problem has to do with the CUC
I had the same problem 2 months ago in my LPS tank, I was desperate.
I had to clean the rocks myself and 3 days later they were full of algae again

I have 150 DT and I introduced 75 snails and they did the work.
I dont have experience with hermit crabs, but snails will definitivelly solve a lot of your problem. but you will have to go with a generous quantity , not 4 or 5. I believe at least 2snails per galon.

when you were dosing reef energy A and B, how much were you dosing?
I ask because in the directions, they mention a dose for low nutrient color enhansing ( 4ml per 26 gal aprox) and half that dose for accelerated growth.
I just started dosing because I have an sps tank and I am struglling with pale colors.

 

[sensei]

I made a mistake above.
I wanted to say 1 snail per 2 galons of DT. so if your DT is 65, you would need around 32.

But, I know that hermit crabs sometimes kill the snails.

 

[Myka]

But, I know that hermit crabs sometimes kill the snails.

Some hermits are really bad for this. Scarlet Hermits are actually pretty good. I have a tank full of them and there are even Cerith snails in the tank (hermit favs).

 

[Wally.B]

OK. OK. I will not change anything except find a massive clean up crew addition. Algae eating varieties. Will start with more snails.

The 30 Small blue legged hermits I got recently must be doing something good. No new nice looking green algae growing. What is there is lousy looking algae, all breaking up. Bits floating around.

I see no redish cyano anywhere. And sparse gas bubble, here and there.

BTW. Red dragon is sprouting more and more polyps!

Thanks everyone for your support and your slap on my tinkering hands.

Wally

 

[Wally.B]

when you were dosing reef energy A and B, how much were you dosing?
I ask because in the directions, they mention a dose for low nutrient color enhansing ( 4ml per 26 gal aprox) and half that dose for accelerated growth.
I just started dosing because I have an sps tank and I am struglling with pale colors.

I don't use reef energy A B. When I referred to A B dosing. I was referring to Randy A B formula for Calcium and Alkalinity dosing.

 

[sensei]

is anyone feeding Reefenergy A and B? how much?
if so what is the experience with these products for getting colors in sps?

 

[markalot]

Some hermits are really bad for this. Scarlet Hermits are actually pretty good. I have a tank full of them and there are even Cerith snails in the tank (hermit favs).

I agree but I wish I understood these hermits better. They don't change shells (maybe full grown) and like to lay around on their backs. I have 4 that are 2 years old now and still in the same shells. I've bought every kind of shell imaginable in every size and placed them strategically (ie next to the lazy butts sunning themselves) and still not interested.

 

[reefmutt]

I also love the scarlet hermits. They are the only hermit that is 100% recognizable and reef safe. I have never found them to eat snails or anything other than algae. And they are pretty.... They like their coffee brakes but they are good cleaners..

 

[JB NY]

i also love the scarlet hermits. They are the only hermit that is 100% recognizable and reef safe. I have never found them to eat snails or anything other than algae. And they are pretty.... They like their coffee brakes but they are good cleaners..

100%

 

[Myka]

I did see one of my Scarlet Hermits attempting to eat a snail. He was trying to pull up and Astraea snail's operculum and was succeeding. I took the snail away from him, and never saw it happen again. This is one incident with this group of snails that I've had for several years. I haven't lost any snails.

I agree but I wish I understood these hermits better. They don't change shells (maybe full grown) and like to lay around on their backs. I have 4 that are 2 years old now and still in the same shells. I've bought every kind of shell imaginable in every size and placed them strategically (ie next to the lazy butts sunning themselves) and still not interested.

I have lost a few of these Scarlets to what I believe is them killing each other for their shells. I have witnessed them fighting with each other on rare occasions. They prefer well worn shells, not nice looking ones. :lol: I get shells for them from the LFS that they collect from dead hermits.

 

[sensei]

Wally,

what are you feeding the sps beside feeding the fish?

 

[Wally.B]

Wally,

what are you feeding the sps beside feeding the fish?

Since I don't have enough fish yet, but will eventually (slowly increase fish, when I find the ones I want)......

I was feeding, but stopped just a few days ago due to algae. (Plan to resume once algae subsides)

- RotiFeast 1 teaspoon nightly (every day)

I still am adding (under dosing based on manufacturer specs.):
- Polyp Booster 5 drops Every other day
- ZeoVit Coral Vitalizer 2 drops Every other day
- Acro Power 5 ml twice a week (when not feed the two above)

In the past, but no longer, I did feed overnight (once a week)

Either:
- Coral Frenzy 1/4 teaspoon
- Reef Roids 1/4 teaspoon

 

[Wally.B]

I also love the scarlet hermits. They are the only hermit that is 100% recognizable and reef safe. I have never found them to eat snails or anything other than algae. And they are pretty.... They like their coffee brakes but they are good cleaners..

I was looking up scarlet crabs since I thought my lps never carried them. They only carry emeralds, porcelain, blue legged and red legged crabs.

I just found out scarlet crabs are red legged crabs. I have a couple. I bought less since they are bigger than the blue legged ones, and thought smaller would be better to fit in small algae spots.

If scarlet crabs are really good, I'll get a bunch. Bigger crab means better appetite for algae.

However one of my Scarlets is in my sump, since he was bugging the astrea snails. He is a weird one. He figured out how to climb the corner glass walls of my tank by gripping the corner silcone. He actually made it out of my tank once. Found on floor. In sump he climbs all the power cords.

Hopefully other new scarlets will be nicer to the snails.